[tloof]

I've been looking at the '06 model 300 hp Nissan 350Z V6 engine (the VQ35) as a better swap for a 968 rather than an LS1/2 V8, since it seems to be the perfect engine our vehicle. It is exactly the same overall weight (approximately 380 lbs with accessories) as the stock 968 4 cyl engine, and dimensionally it will fit under the hood with no chassis or body modifications required. It is 300 hp stock (which is about the max that can ge gotten out of a modified 968 engine), but with a few mods will easily make up to about 350-360 hp which is about the max the stock ZF 6-speed transaxle can handle without problems (the LS1/2 V8 makes too much torque for the ZF 6-speed to handle over the long term).



What do the rest of you think about this swap idea?

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[flash]

very interesting idea - revs should be close for gearing too - smooth running engine - a lot less modification required, and as you said, none of the big issues of a V8 - having done a few V8 swaps in cars, including a 944, i know all too well the issues they have long term - hmmm - i just may have to look into this myself

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[Fox944]

for less money you could just supercharge the 968 motor & call it a day.

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[PorscheDude]

Sounds pretty good. Biggest problem would be clutch and bell housing.

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[flash]

i still plan to go ahead with the supercharger, but i get the idea behind a simple, practical, reliablem, and most importantly smog legal 300

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[Renalicious]

A V6 swap would interest me based on the sound it makes. Personally I think 6 bangers make a MUCH better exhaust note than 4 bangers. The added power would be nice too of course

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[tloof]

If you do the swap yourself then the 350Z engine will actually cost FAR less than the 968 supercharger setup runs, simply because you can probably sell your stock 968 engine for about the same as it will cost for an entire 350Z engine pullout (so thus the swap would virtually cost $0 other than the labor required to do it). All you have to buy is a salvage 350Z engine with wiring harness, ECU, & bellhousing (get it with the stock flywheel, clutch & pressure plate still on it), and then make a custom adapter plate that bolts on the back of the VQ35 bellhousing that a 944 torque tube will bolt-up to (this is basically what is done on the LS1/2 engine swap that uses the Corvette bellhousing). A new adapter plate setup will have to be developed for this swap, but it isn't that formidable in my opinion! Keep in mind that the installed weight of the 350Z engine will also be less than a supercharged 968 engine + you can still maintain a full AC system (that's a big plus). A custom header setup for a 350Z will probably come close to fitting in the 968 as well, or at least with minimal mods most likely. There are also cheaper supercharger kits available for the 350Z engine if more power is wanted that will far exceed what a supercharged 968 engine will make, so in the end even a supercharged 350Z engine swapped into the 968 would still cost less than simply trying to supercharge the 968 engine itself.



In reality the VQ35 engine has just the right amount of power for the 968 such that it won't completely over power the chassis, and will still maintain the same weight bias as the stock engine (it also has the same max engine redline so that the stock 968 ZF 6-speed transaxle gear ratios are perfectly compatible). This engine would make for the ideal upgrade & modernization of our 968's. This way we get the best of both worlds by keeping our beautiful & rare 968 body style on the road but with the more refined power as many later model vehicles have (plus it will also cost less to maintain since there are so many of these engines in the wrecking yards now due to the high production volume of them by Nissan).



Food for thought...

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[tloof]

I just did some checking, and a good low mileage complete 2006 350Z engine with only 16K miles can be had for only about $3000 from several of the wrecking yards (so this kinda blows a hole in Fox944's thought that a supercharged upgrade on the 968 engine is cheaper since that kit is over $7000!!!!).



Oh I forgot to mention this, but you would have to use a bellhousing from an auto tranny version engine to do this conversion since the manual tranny that Nissan uses behind the VQ35 has an integral bellhousing cast within the tranny case itself (the auto trans version on the otherhand is removable from the tranny case). This might make it possible to use the stock 968 torque tube rather than converting to a 944 torque tube since the VQ35 auto tranny bellhousing has a removable plate on the bottom to allow access to the torque converter bolts (perhaps if the adapter plate is designed correctly this feature could allow a clutch change on the VQ35 engine without removing it just the same as the stock 968 engine...hmm). As an alternative an adapter plate that allows the stock 968 bellhousing to mount onto the VQ35 engine is the better way to go?

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[ds968]

I for one shudder at the thought of opening up the Porsche hood and staring at a Nissan or Chevy engine in there <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> , no matter how much power <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/dry.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> . Sort of like buying a Ferrari Dino and dropping a Pontiac engine in it.. But that issue aside, and if you never , ever open up the hood for anyone ( including yourself ) to see <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> , I can't argue with the kick of driving a 968 with 350 ponies and the sound of a 6 or an 8 banger .. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Renalicious]

But there is something to be said for having an naturally aspirated 4 banger making 280+ HP <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[tloof]

I myself could care less if a Porsche engine or any other engine is under the hood of the 968. In fact, having the Nissan VQ35 or a GM LS1/2 under the hood would be a BIG plus since it would be FAR, FAR cheaper to maintain & run than ANY of the Porsche engines with their high dollar parts costs!!!!! The VQ35 also has chain driven cams with a more advanced hydraulic variable valve timing system that is good for over 300,000 + miles without any maintenance problems unlike the problem prone & expensive 968 engine!!!



Any way you slice it it would be a BIG improvement over the stock 4 cylinder monstrosity that is currently under our hoods!!!

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[ds968]

[quote name='tloof' post='39678' date='Aug 9 2007, 04:08 PM']I myself could care less if a Porsche engine or any other engine is under the hood of the 968. In fact, having the Nissan VQ35 or a GM LS1/2 under the hood would be a BIG plus since it would be FAR, FAR cheaper to maintain & run than ANY of the Porsche engines with their high dollar parts costs!!!!! The VQ35 also has chain driven cams with a more advanced hydraulic variable valve timing system that is good for over 300,000 + miles without any maintenance problems unlike the problem prone & expensive 968 engine!!!

Any way you slice it it would be a BIG improvement over the stock 4 cylinder monstrosity that is currently under our hoods!!![/quote]



..as would a Pontiac engine, in a Dino. No one can argue with the logic, the practicality and the overall sense that any and all of the above statements make.. but who says sensibility and Porsche have anything in common ?! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[tloof]

Renalicious,



The only way you can get 280+ hp out of the 968's 4 banger is if you spend about $2000 plus for the RS Barn custom header, cat back system, & chip! Take that same $2000 and you have already paid for 2/3 of the cost for the 350Z engine that makes 300 hp stock (which also has WAY more torque). After selling the 968 engine for about $3500 you will then net $2500 back into your pocket which means you made an extra $500 that can be used to complete the conversion. After the conversion is done the VQ35 setup will be WAY faster than the 280+ hp 968 upgrade, and will cost far less to maintain & operate!



My take on all of this...if you plan to modify your stock 968 engine for any more power at all then it would be better to simply swap out to something like the VQ35 or LS1/2 engine, otherwise you should just stick with a plain stock 236 hp 968 engine untill it dies (and then upgrade to a VQ35 or LS1/2 engine!! Ha).

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[RPM]

Not to step on anyone's toes on a hot Thursday night... but I would not want the engine from a frikkin Altima in my car. And if I did I would just go buy a used C5 Vette... or maybe even a 350Z.



There is a reason to own a Porsche that goes beyond mere performance numbers. They are purpose built high performance cars, built by a company that is dedicated to performance for the sheer sake of performance. Sometimes they are a bit strange - and the 968 is one of the stranger ones. Yes, it has some issues. But monstrosity? I think that a four cylinder engine that puts out 240 hp and 225 ft/lbs of torque in a flat powerband without a turbo or supercharger is a feat of engineering excellence to be admired.



Last question - why do this at all? Why not just go buy a 350Z? For about $20k you could get a high performance car that is ten years newer and far more modern - ergonomically, electronically, and mechnically.

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[tloof]

[quote name='ds968' post='39679' date='Aug 9 2007, 06:19 PM']..as would a Pontiac engine, in a Dino. No one can argue with the logic, the practicality and the overall sense that any and all of the above statements make.. but who says sensibility and Porsche have anything in common ?! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />[/quote]



Well keep in mind that swapping to another manufacturer's engine that can be maintained & operated for far less in such high end vehicles such as our Porsche (& Dino's, etc.) only makes sense if you also get a decent increase in power as well. In otherwords, a Pontiac engine in a Dino would probably make no sense unless it is a LS2 400hp V8 out of a GTO replacing a lower hp Dino engine from a much older model Dino...after all, most all late model Dino's have way more than 400 hp, right?



Our Porsche 968's are not really very expensive vehicles these days and probably will never be worth all that much in true collector value, so it is the ideal vehicle to convert (due to it's extreme beauty and the fact that it is also front engine vehicle) with an improved engine so that it increases the fun factor for driving!!

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[ds968]

[quote name='tloof' post='39683' date='Aug 9 2007, 04:36 PM']a Pontiac engine in a Dino would probably make no sense unless it is a LS2 400hp V8 out of a GTO replacing a lower hp Dino engine from a much older model Dino...after all, most all late model Dino's have way more than 400 hp, right?[/quote]

Yeah, I was referring to the 206 / 246 GT Dinos, the underpowered ones.. but it was more an illustration of

the Franken-car concept which I have difficulties with. Again, not the logic, just the brand passion.

Although I'm guilty of quite a few ( albeit, minor ) modifications myself so perhaps I should not throw stones in a glass house.. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[tloof]

RPM,



Why do such a swap as opposed to going out and buying a used 350Z? That's simple enough to answer! The 968 Cab is a FAR better looking car, has a great handling chassis, easily fits 6'-3" tall people like myself in it (unlike the 350Z Cab), and there are less than 2,000 of them in the US so it gets alot of attention due to its exclusivity for such a low cost in comparison to most $60,000+ cars!!! To this day I still get about 2-3 comments a month asking me if my 968 Cab is a brand new 2007 model Porsche that they haven't ever seen yet! 350Z's on the otherhand are a "dime a dozen" around my area (even though they do have a better engine than the 968 has...now if we could just upgrade to the 350Z engine but with the Porsche 968 look then you have a much improved & still unique vehicle!!!)

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[Mark]

If you are going to stick a Japanese motor n there you may as well do a 2JZ swap so you can bump it into the 700HP range easily and get to 1000hp if you are a maniac. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Personally I like the 4 cyl in my cars.

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[StephenHallman]

The only engine I would swap for the 968's would be for a 928 engine. Still keeping it porsche but adding the extra 4 cylinders it deserves.

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[Renalicious]

tloof, yes, I'm planning on getting those upgrades as well as RS Barn cams too. Personally the only thing that bothers me about a 4 banger is that it doesn't sound like a 6 banger <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/happy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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