[lisalauck]

I've seen 0-60 times for a stock 968 listed as 6.5 and better for the 6-speed manual tranny (depending on the test) but the Tip times I've seen are in the high 7s. I know the Tip ads more weight and it is only a 4 speed tranny, but if you shift it manually do you still get a time in the high 7s? Is it the extra weight of the Tip system or the 4-spd tranny that is more at fault? Is that 0-60 number for the Tip for real?

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[968workaholic]

The gears in the tip are longer, so it takes some more time for the car to get up to speed. The weight isn't as big of a factor as the gearing. Hope that helps.

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[lisalauck]

But are those numbers real? Is the difference THAT severe even if one shifts manually in the Tip?

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[flash]

yes

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[968rz]

Dont let the times scare you from buying a tip, driven right it can stay close to a 6speed (6speed will still be faster unless the driver is that bad). I can keep up to my friends 964 stick (even get ahead of him <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> )

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[flash]

yeah, it's only the off the line thing that will be significantly different - once you are rolling, it's not all that bad in manual mode - starting in second in auto mode can be a drag though, so you may find yourself in manual mode a lot

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[ender]

Porscheworld quotes 5.9 for the stick and 7 seconds for the tip. I've seen the difference quoted between 1.1 and 1.4 seconds.

I wonder how much a performance chip, like a promax 7100, would shave off both times.



http://www.porschesworld.com/porsche-968.html



I have a tip and usually use the manual mode. My girlfriend just uses the automatic mode. I tell her to use "3" (which starts in 1st gear, and stops in 3rd) as opposed to D (which starts in 2nd) unless she's on the freeway or going 60+.

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[flash]

not as much with the promax as some others, partly due to the lower redline, partly due to where the peak power is, but in a tip it should be about .15 seconds improvement - a nice bump nonetheless



as an example of the issue, the custom rs barn stage 2 chip i have in now, which has a very high redline, allows me to hit 60 in my 6spd, well before i run out of second gear - the racer x did the same thing, as did the weltmeister - with the stock chip, the promax 7100, and the autothority, you are shifting into 3rd



with a chip that has a higher redline, and broader peak power band, you can probably see about 2 tenths in a tip

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[coloradocab]

[quote name='flash' post='41012' date='Sep 10 2007, 12:08 PM']with a chip that has a higher redline, and broader peak power band, you can probably see about 2 tenths in a tip[/quote]



My experience is that the transmission control unit will decide to shift at the stock redline even with an aftermarket DME chip that allows the engine to rev higher. So, although these chips definitely help with a tip, you don't get the benefit of the higher redline.

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[flash]

you should, but you will probably need to "retrain" it to one of the maps that allows it



i'll have to take one of the chips i have here and poke it into a tip and see



i suppose it's possible though that they limited the valve body pressure

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[gryphon]

My tip cab is far from a rocket, but my buttometer definitely noticed some low end improvment with the intake mod and RS Barn chip.



That being said, I would soooo love for some smart person to find a way to reprogram the tip software so it can stay in the most agressive mode, without running the crap out of the car to get it there time after time. And, to get first gear takeoffs in D mode.



Tom

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[lisalauck]

[quote name='flash' post='41015' date='Sep 10 2007, 03:44 PM']you should, but you will probably need to "retrain" it to one of the maps that allows it[/quote]



How does one "retrain" a 968? And I'd be interested to know what your chip does in a Tip.

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[flash]

well, i'm not the tip expert by any means, but from what i understand, you have to drive the car really hard to train it to shift accordingly, and it learns as you drive



when i said "one of the chips i have here" i meant that of the collection of different brands i have accumulated

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[gryphon]

According to Porsche:



"The auto mode had 5 different programs to suit different driving style, something like the "Sport", "Economy" and "Winter" mode in traditional autoboxes. The computer determined shifting according to driving style. For instance, frequent full-throttle operation and brisk release of throttle indicated a sporting driving mode, thus "fast" program would be selected."



Unfortunately, it seems like the "program" is lost each time you turn off the engine.



Tom

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[flash]

yeah - i think you're right - in fact, i think it reprograms faster than that - i am pretty sure it drops to a less aggessive program seconds after it sees less aggressive driving - it is my understanding that this is a very adaptive system, designed to constantly be changing and accommodating the driving style

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[gryphon]

Hard to know what mode you are in, Bob, but I think you are right.



Is it possible that any software guys have tried to decode the tip program on another Porsche model? The above quote also applied to 911s.



Probably dreaming here.



Tom



PS I suspect that the multiple modes had a lot to do with maximizing the CAFE ratings.

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[968rz]

I had (at one time) stumbled across a UK web site for TIPs on an Audi forum, where they would reprogram the chip to be more aggressive; our problem is that Porsche had already tweeked the chip and they could not get more out of it (at least thats what the site stated)

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[wjk_glynn]

[quote name='penelope' post='41001' date='Sep 10 2007, 08:11 AM']But are those numbers real? Is the difference THAT severe even if one shifts manually in the Tip?[/quote]



See this link for a summary of 968 performance tests...



http://www.weissach.net/924-944-968_RoadTe...y.html#968Coupe



I've only found one independant test of a 968 TIP.



If anyone has results from independant instrumented tests by reputable magazines, please share and I'll add them to the list. Please note that a lot of articles simply quote the factory numbers. I'm looking for independant instrumented test results.



Thanks.



Karl.

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[flash]

while i did not time them, i drove a couple of tips when i was looking at cars to buy, aggressively pushing them, and i can tell you the comparison of times is very real - the tip is a LOT slower off the line - once you are rolling though, not so bad, and certainly a lot easier to drive on a daily basis

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[ds968]

a difference of one entire second in the 0-60 time between two of those tests at each end of the spectrum,

( I presume these were all new cars in near identical running condition ) seems to be a very large gap.. ? same for the 1/4 mile .. another one full second difference. would ambient conditions, driver weight and skill, or such factors amount to that large of a deviation in performance ?

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