43 replies to this topic

[ds968]

Granted, it will never happen because reality is what it is .. I'm just saying that the car's market value is very arbitrary and any given buyer's willingness to pay " x " for it is highly influenced by the prices they see the car go for elsewhere, so in the absence of being able to find another 968 for $ 10k, or $ 15 k , or even $ 20 k because no seller lets it go for less etc, I believe many would be willing to pay 50% more than they do now for a nice 968, given it's unique appeal..

Older, slower, poorer handling cars with similarly limited production numbers are selling for as much 10x the price of a 968 , mostly because the sellers have held steadfast and are not unloading the cars for a song, like we do with ours.

If a Ferrari Dino ( 246 ) in so-so shape goes for $ 150,000+ .. and they do sell ! ... I'm not sure I see that much of a disconnect for a 968 to go for one fifth of that, as in $ 30,000 + if that's the only price choice for a buyer out there..

Offer me $30 K for my car today and I'll just laugh.. but that's now when I don't need the money, who knows what the future holds , I may need to sell it next year or the year after.. and then, it's market price, baby !

[Cloud9...68]

Well, there has been a lot of discussion in the past of why the 968 is or isn't a future collector's car. As owners of the car, we love them and tend to overlook their faults, but I'm afraid there are several factors that will make it difficult for the car to ever be worth a whole lot of money:

- It wasn't all that competitive with its contemporaries, coming in dead last in at least one comparison test I remember (Car & Driver, I believe). Price may have been a big factor in that test's outcome, though

- It was succeeded by a car that has been wildly popular, both in the automotive press, and with the buying public. Thus, I'm afraid the 968 will be remembered as a dinosaur that was replaced by a far superior car. I personally don't feel this way, but I'm afraid this opinion was borne out by the relative sales figures of the 968 vs. the Boxster.

- The 968 was built during some of Porsche's darkest days. Again, this isn't an opinion I hold, but the 968 may be remembered as a car that nearly put Porsche out of business.

- There really wasn't a whole lot that was very unique about it. It was simply the final evolution of a very competent line of cars. Some may argue that it was from a line that hung on a bit longer than it should have, in fact.

- The dang road noise!

Having said all that, I really like the car, and, as I said earlier, the right example could be turned into a car that's competitive with a lot of modern cars for a fairly modest additional outlay of cash. But as a stand-alone collectable, I just don't see it.

And as far as the idea of every 968 seller holding out for top dollar, driving up the price of the car, well, I'm not an economist, but this sort of "enthusiast protectionism" would be a pretty difficult thing to stick to. Every seller has their own agenda and time table, and we all tend to act based on our individual needs, not what's best for the community as a whole, unfortunately.

I'm hopeful that as the cars become more and rare, the gap in price between well-kept examples and the run-of-the-mill copies will rise. So while the average price of 968's may remain flat-lined, those of us who keep our cars in top shape may end up getting rewarded for our efforts.

[biotechee]

I paid what I would consider a premium for my cab. And I would do it again, for the "right" 968.

With so few (relatively speaking) out there, the "right" one doesn't pop up very often. Sometimes, as was the case with me, the "right" one didn't pop up at all - I found it and asked if the PO was interested in selling. I got a begrudging "yes" and now it is in my garage. Had I not sought it out, it would have never been for sale publically. It would have been sold to a friend of the PO who was "intrigued" by the 968, but was not a "fanatic." The potential new owner was into 356's and older 911's....

As always, the price is whatever the buyer and seller agree to... There are some really great deals out there right now. I think one can get a great car, dump a couple of grand into it to bring it up to mechanical snuff, and be a happy 968 owner for significantly less than $20K. It may not be cosmetically perfect, but most cosmetic issues can be addressed over the long haul in my opinion.

I've contemplated selling my cab off and on for the last few months. I hardly drive it - but that is due to home projects and weather. And I sometimes regret seeing it sit there and stagnate. Now that home projects are dying down, I plan to drive it as much as possible this Fall. And I'll be keeping it as long as I can. All the while still secretly longing for a coupe daily driver!

[968Syncro]

Here is an example for discussion: red over black cab, no mention of mods, tiptronic, 45K miles, $25,000. "Collectors Item" (well, not sure about the collector item status just yet). In Sacramento CA. Asking price seems high.

http://losangeles.cr...1926636218.html

And two more in the SF bay area:
1992 Porsche 926 Cabriolet. Midnight Blue with a Beige interior & a Dark Blue Soft Top. 6 Speed manual transmission. $24900
http://sfbay.craigsl...1916670378.html

1992 PORSCHE 968 CONVERTABLE **SUPER LOW MILES** RARE COLOR (Coral Red, 11K miles): $29800
http://sfbay.craigsl...1922967005.html

That's 3 at $25K or more asking price: maybe prices are going up

The midnight blue car is certainly a collectors item, a "Porsche 926", those are really rare! The Coral red car is also special, it is a "CONVERTABLE " . Hmmm... probably means the trunk folds out into a bed, and it has the "STEPTRONIC " which is really rare.

Roland

Edited by 968Syncro, 30 August 2010 - 10:53 AM.

[biotechee]

I would agree that seems optimistic, especially with the tiptronic. I paid less than that for my 6sp SY/BL cab, with less than 45K miles.

But, a red cab with a black interior in tip-top shape... seems like a non-normal color combo...

[jeff968]

"But, a red cab with a black interior in tip-top shape... seems like a non-normal color combo..."

Actually Jim, that combo (red/black/black) is the second most popular North American 968 cab color combination (exterior/interior/top) out of 185 combos actually produced for the North American market.
Jeff

[Darryl]

There are lots of valid points in this thread. Some of which suck because they are true; some of which suck because we wish they were (or weren't depending on which side of the argument you fall) true. I'm of the opinion and always have been that nice examples will hold their value - regardless of mileage or options. We all agree that the cars need to be driven and need to be well maintained. One goes hand in hand with the other. We also all agree that we tend to be biased in our love for the 968. There are many other models from other manufacturers that suffer similar identity issues...anybody ever check the prices of a 4 seater Ferrari lately? Very nice examples are still the higher priced ones but is anybody really seeking one out to claim they own a Ferrari? If you like those models, then you probably won't have a problem paying a fair price for a car you want to own.

In my opinion, our biggest problem with the value of a 968 is that the general population (ie, non-Porschephiles) always want to compare the 968 to either a 944 or a Boxster. Makes perfect sense sine they were the predescessor and successor respectively, but no, they are not the same. I have some of my own observations and comparisons:

A poor beaten down 968 is indeed basically the same as a poor beaten down 944, just a few (or more) years newer. A crappy 944 can sell for as little as 1500 or so and I don't care how many service records or how nice the pictures are, any 968 you get for 5K or so WILL HAVE SOME ISSUES! Both models are just as expensive to fix if done properly so many folks would rather sell cheap than pay to fix it. That's how I got my Coupe. IT HAS/HAD SOME ISSUES. But I'm hoping with the price I paid, the work I've done, the work I plan to do, and if there is batch number two for Design 1 Superchargers, I should be able to have a very nice supercharged 968 Coupe for around 14K. Tell 10K Boxster purchasers to put that in their pipe and smoke it.

Speaking of the Boxster, the price of a first generation Boxster with "average" mileage, and remember we're talking a 10+ year old car now, of say 80K or 90K can be had for around 10-12K. Why would anyone pay any more than that for a 968, especially when they probably have no idea what it is or why it's actually better. Hell, you can trade a cell phone for a Boxster!! By the way, evidently the kid that did that isn't keeping the Boxster 'cause, surprise, he can't afford or doesn't want to afford the maintenance and repairs on the car. The Boxster is the 944 of the 21st century.

Bottom line - if you own a 968, enjoy it! If you're buying one, either pick a nice one or plan on spending at least a certain amount to make it presentable and enjoyable. Each one that's parted out or wrecked will only help to at least hold the value of the "nice ones", collectible or not. It'll take a long time for the 968 to be considered a collector car. Flash had a good post quite some time ago in another thread about the real reasons it isn't a collector car or ever will be...again, most of what he said is sad but true. However, that being said, as time goes by and I have mine out in places where it's there to be seen, the more frequently I get asked about it. The most frequent comment is something along the lines of "...boy you don't see many of these anymore..." Makes me want to snag as many sub 10K 968s as I can afford. Right now, I'm at 10K with the Coupe and that includes the 3500 price paid for the parts car!!

- Darryl

[White968]

Darryl "boy you don't see many of these anymore' That's why I like my 968, Here in New York a Boxster is a dime a dozen along with base model 911's.

[Monstrous4Banger]

Yeah, boxsters are lame. i never plan on selling my cars, I got them as my toys to tinker on forever, gradually making them better. I guess I fall into the ground up resto category. I send major rebuilds off, like engine, and transmissions builds. One of the main reasons, is to retain some type of value, if I do need to sell one. People dont want to buy a performance engine built by you, in your garage. Don Jackson Enterprises does all my engine builds. http://www.donjacksonent.com They are very well known in AZ, and have been in business at the same location for 36 years. Something built with recognition, and receipts, people tend to be more receptive to. That said, I wouldnt even sell my 951 for less than 20-25k, even if times were rough. Between it, and my 968 I couldve darn near just bought 2 370z's outright, and I havent even gotten started on the 968. Sometimes, I think maybe I shouldve gone with a Z, but they just dont have the soul or character our cars have.

Edited by Monstrous4Banger, 31 August 2010 - 04:18 AM.

[biotechee]

Thanks for the clarification Jeff. I would have thought red/tan would have been the most popular with red/black being much less popular. I can't stand the tan/cashmere interiors, especially on a red exterior! No offense to those who own one...

[rxter]

"...but they just dont have the soul..."

bingo

[ebarone968]

Darryl "boy you don't see many of these anymore' That's why I like my 968, Here in New York a Boxster is a dime a dozen along with base model 911's.


Very true. The rarity factor is a big plus for me. The car is very valuable to me. I really don't care too much what I can sell it for today or tomorrow. I may never sell it. Whenever I do a road trip I get so many compliments on the car. People don't have a clue how old it is or whether it's a new model. The parking attendant this weekend on my trip to the Portland waterfront said the car attracted so much attention he had to keep them away from the car. I think he was just looking for a good tip lol

[jeff968]

"Thanks for the clarification Jeff. I would have thought red/tan would have been the most popular with red/black being much less popular. I can't stand the tan/cashmere interiors, especially on a red exterior! No offense to those who own one..."

No problem Jim, as you guessed, red exterior, black/cashmere interior, black top is THE most common combo for North American 968 cabs with 221 produced, more then 10% of the entire 2,008. Of the 185 color combos (ext/int/top) I mentioned above, 69 of them are 1 of 1s so there are a lot of unique 968 cabs out there.

[lbpesq]

"Speaking of the Boxster, the price of a first generation Boxster with "average" mileage, and remember we're talking a 10+ year old car now, of say 80K or 90K can be had for around 10-12K. Why would anyone pay any more than that for a 968, especially when they probably have no idea what it is or why it's actually better."

I can give you at least one excellent reason why this newbie 968 owner (2 weeks now!) was willing to pay more for a 968 than a Boxster. I can fit in the 968. At 6'2", I can't fit comfortably in a Boxster. My Miata that I just sold was more comfortable than the Boxster. I picked the 968 because it was the closest thing I could find to a Miata that was 15-20% bigger. I really appreciate that the 968 is a "drivers" car - no extraneous BS (though, admittedly, I wouldn't mind cup holders). I wanted a two-seater convertible that handled well, had sufficient power, and had enough storage for my wife and I to go on a weekend trip. There really aren't a lot of cars that fit those requirements. Then throw in that I like the unusual and interesting and the 968 was a no-brainer.

Bill

P.S. Mine is a light blue with black & tan interior. Where does that put me on the list? It seemed when I was searching for mine that 90% of 968's are either black or red.

Edited by lbpesq, 31 August 2010 - 11:59 AM.

[jeff968]

" Mine is a light blue with black & tan interior. Where does that put me on the list? It seemed when I was searching for mine that 90% of 968's are either black or red."

Bill, I agree with you on the size observation. Did you ever sit in a Honda S2000, very small. As for your car I have some good news for you. I remember seeing it for sale on the Net. A nice looking 968 cab. Anyway, PCNA imported 34 968 cabs in F4 Horizon Blue metallic, of those only ONE was paired with a black and cashmere interior, your car. So you have a 1 of 1!! The last 3 digits of your VIN are 230, right?

Jeff

[lbpesq]

Jeff:

O.K., that's just plain spooky! Yes, that's my VIN. Either you must be psychic or there is a master list floating around out there!

Bill

[Cloud9...68]

"I can't stand the tan/cashmere interiors, especially on a red exterior! No offense to those who own one... "

That's so funny. I obviously don't own this color combination, but I personally think there's nothing in the automotive world as drop-dead gorgeous as a deep red sports car/GT with a tan interior. My '93 RX-7 had this combo. It's just so interesing how people have such different tastes...

I see so many posts mentioning how many compliments people get on their 968's. Mine is very nice example, a trip to the paintless dent removal guys away from being pristine, and yet I feel like I'm invisible whenever I drive it - maybe two or three comments in the 5+ years I've owned it. Oh, well, probably because it's not a pick-up, here in Texas...

Edited by Cloud9...68, 31 August 2010 - 03:38 PM.

[hot968]

I recently looked at a 93 968 manual, Adventura green, classic grey interior,great shape low miles-34000, 3rd owner, I was so suprised when he said he was looking for $20,000.00. He had told me he brought it 6 months agao and paid $15,000.00? He said he saw 968;s selling for 20,000. and more on the internet. Needless to say I passed on that sale

[White968]

I bought a low mileage 968 eight years ago with 38K on it and I paid $21,500 for it from a Porsche dealership. I know I probably paid a little too much for the car buying it from a dealership and all but without regrets, After owning 944's and 280Z turbos the 968 is a work of art and the most reliable car i've ever owned. So if you buy a low mileage\well maintained 968 for a premium you wont be dissapointed but expect to throw some money into it as these cars are 15+ years in age and the rubber might be in jeopardy.

[jeff968]

"O.K., that's just plain spooky! Yes, that's my VIN. Either you must be psychic or there is a master list floating around out there!
Bill"

The registry knows all (almost all). Take care of that 1 of 1. There is a fellow 968er, Kathy Downs, who lives in Maryland and has a very nice Horizon Blue cab as well. If you get to one of our get togethers in 2011 maybe you'll see her.

Jeff