59 replies to this topic

[jeff968]

Some more "real world" transactions to add to this thread.

I purchased my 92 mint green cab last September for $18.3K. It had all the maintenance done including a new clutch, 41K miles. It needed some TLC on small things which have now been addressed.

I sold my 92 Amazon cab in October for $17K. It had the original clutch, 54K miles, and no issues.

I know another 968er who paid $20K for a 29K mile 95 cab in September.

[TomS2]

[quote name='SpeedRacer64' post='56769' date='Jul 26 2008, 09:51 PM']4 years ago, I paid 22.5K for my 94 w/ 12K miles on it. Some may say to much...for me not a hard decision, I had it cash and everything else new for the same money...well...just sucked. And at the end of the day....I just love the looks of the car. Cost of ownership to date....less oil changes 28K So it is possible[/quote]
If some said too much, how much was too much? 1K (5%) 2k(10%) 10k(50%) yeah i rounded. How convenient was the purchase - shipping etc. it all adds up.

Throw a value on the car today, no modifications say 30k miles, 50k miles, 70k miles, 90k miles.

you bought a brand new porsche for camry money. that was money well spent imho.

What im trying to equate/formulate is at what mileage does the 'new car' premium start to go down? At what point is it just an old car and one with ?? miles is worth about as much as one with say 125k miles.
[quote name='jeff968' post='56841' date='Jul 29 2008, 07:46 AM']Some more "real world" transactions to add to this thread.

I purchased my 92 mint green cab last September for $18.3K. It had all the maintenance done including a new clutch, 41K miles. It needed some TLC on small things which have now been addressed.

I sold my 92 Amazon cab in October for $17K. It had the original clutch, 54K miles, and no issues.

I know another 968er who paid $20K for a 29K mile 95 cab in September.[/quote]

so roughly - rule of thumb - every 10k miles was about $1500.
take your 92, the high milage one, say it was a coupe - how much more or less would it have been worth?

Edited by TomS2, 29 July 2008 - 07:40 PM.

[jeff968]

so roughly - rule of thumb - every 10k miles was about $1500.
take your 92, the high milage one, say it was a coupe - how much more or less would it have been worth?

There are so many variables that come into the equation. i would say the big ones are:

mileage
transmission
coupe/cab
options
color exterior/interior
milestone car
paint all original/partial/full repaint
condition/presentation
history/paperwork
maintenance
modifications
Time of year of sale
Buyer's desire for the car
Seller's need to sell

Coupes go for less then cabs, all things being equal, if my 92 54K cab was a coupe then I would say it would have sold for $14K. I would have thought that my cab would have sold for a little more if it had been spring time rather then October but I didn't want to own two cabs over the winter.

[flash]

another one often overlooked is location - north east cars are less desirable than cars that are not subjected to weather and salted roads - this one is good for about 10% of the price - some of this is mitigated by short term exposure - i won't buy a car that comes from there - been there welded that

it's also a lot easier to make a car look good inside and out if it has not been exposed to those elements - i was stunned to see how bad the engine bays look in the cars back there - pitted aluminum, gunk all over the sheet metal, and just generally dirty everywhere under the hood - it's a tell-tale sign of neglect, and sure to indicate corrosion under the car

that is why a lot of cars are shipped out to california to be sold - they get a higher price - most people don't associate the origin with condition

the flip side is that convertible tops out here are usually pretty beaten up, because they are driven more - the interiors of convertibles are also usually in disrepair, as they are exposed to the sun more

[ds968]

http://www.edmunds.c...968/review.html

Ok, I realize the value of our cars are near pathetic levels, but looking at Edmunds data this morning ( link ), I have to question where in the world they get their info ?! Their so called "true market value" for the average 968 is assessed to be between $ 4,900 and a HIGH of $ 8,500 ?! Absurd. Pure B.S. !

Edited by ds968, 01 February 2010 - 09:13 AM.

[PorscheDude]

One part of the equation that is overlooked in the price guides is,
undervalued bills of sale.
Say person x sells the car for $10k, but writes the BOS for $6500 to
help the purschaser with paying less tax.
This how those averages drop.

[Darryl]

While I agree that the numbers are mostly BS, I tend to use the Edmunds TMV as a basis for buying and selling cars, but remember, that it's an average of ALL CARS, EVERYWHERE and is only based on sales data of what people have actually paid. Not sure where they compile this from...I'm guessing DMV records etc. I also think there are quite a few cars, ours being one of them, that you can use these generic calculators to figure value. They obviously don't take into account production numbers, modifications, service history etc. To prove this, run some fictitious searches on other cars and take a look at how low the numbers are...great for buyers, not so great for sellers. While Edmunds TMV numbers are always low, Kelley Blue Book numbers are almost always too high. I'd sell pretty much anything I own if you'll give me Blue Book for it!

[flash]

most car dealers, insurance companies and finance companies use NADA - nobody really uses edmunds or kelly any more

here is a typical west coast 50k mile 94 hardtop:

http://www.nadaguide...I...77&mi=50000

[Darryl]

flash...correct about NADA...especially as cars get older, the numbers tend to be less accurate and NADA is the only source for older cars since Edmunds and KBB don't go back that far.

I forgot to mention in my previous post, another source I have access to is one of my dealer friends who will look up stuff for me when I'm buying or selling and he can give me exact details of anything and everything sold at auction in the last 90 days. That's how he determines how much to offer when he's buying and selling outright...but not necessarily "trade-in" pricing as he always has to figure in a little profit.

- Darryl

[biotechee]

Darryl-

It is always nice to have a friend in the business!!

And I conur re: NADA. KBB and Edmunds are really only good, in my opinion, for getting new car MSRPs and costs, and used car values for cars less than 2-3 yrs old.

[ds968]

NADA seem to be pretty much on the mark. Leads one to wonder why Edmunds even bothers to publish crap like that. Lucky that insurers do not rely on them, otherwise you'd have to fight every claim .. pretty much every 968 with a shopping car dent in the door would be categorized as a total

[rxter]

Autotrader tells me everything I need to know. Last year when I was thinking about selling my 8 I found a few that were pretty close in mileage, options and location, and I sent the sellers emails asking them how things were goind. The answer was rotten (as was selling anything from a mansion to a bucket of oranges post Lehman), no bites, so I'm still driving the bejeebers out of it. Same logic works for buying.

As long as you stay objective you'll find the right price. Of course, when that mid-blu low milage coupe with M030, LSD, and RSB cat-back shows up, objectivity is less important

[MikeVT]

The northeast can be both a terrible and a great place to get a car. If the person uses the car year round RUN away. If the person has a daily and puts the car in storage you can find great cars up here. My car is in storage along with 21 other vintage cars from November to April/May. You have to do your homework and find out how the car is used. I know that 11 of the other cars stored with mine are not driven more than 2 - 3 times/year. I have my eye on one but the owner hasn’t decided to sell yet.

[Scott Collins]

Hello MikeVT,

I am going to have to respectfully disagree, even thought I get what you are saying. My '92 is a DD and in great shape, and it is driven in rain, sleet, snow, ice, and also good weather. I do realize that the conditions, such as road salt, can do some damage, and I wash and care for the car accordingly. I could sell it tomorrow and have no doubts about it going cross-country without issues for another driver. I don't think I am being naive because I stay on top of the maintenance. If my car were for sale, and a prospective buyer dismissed it because of where it is driven, he/she would be missing out. I also have a friend who runs his blue '95 coupe in this area as a DD, and that car is even cleaner than mine! IMHO, if I were buying, I would be more inclined to steer away from a car, no matter where it is stored or driven, if it is not driven regularly.

Peace.

-Scott

[flash]

this is not going to make east coast guys happy, but i have yet to see an east coast car i would buy - i have actually been quite stunned at what is considered "clean" out there - i have been to a couple of shows and concours there, and it really shocks me that discolored engine components are accepted - every one of the cars show the corrosion, albeit to varying levels - you have to know where to look, but it's there

that doesn't mean that such a car isn't a good one to drive, or anything like that - but servicing a car is largely dependent on how easy it is to get to things and change things - that makes the less visible items most important

when i am looking at a car, one of the first places i look is UNDER it - almost nobody gets under there and cleans - when you talk about east coast roads, that's where the corrosion lives - i am under mine at least twice a year with a case of brakleen a toothbrush and a pile of rags, and i am nowhere near as nuts as some of the guys here who show their cars

then i am looking at the suspension, particularly at the hardware that mounts it to the car - again, almost nobody gets in there and cleans

i also look in the engine bay - i am looking at the aluminum for pitting and discoloration - if the valve cover doesn't look new, i'm running away, because i know it is only a symptom of a larger problem

i realize that people cannot be expected to be nearly as anal as i am about cars - i also realize that the conditions there are much harder on cars than they are here, and the maintenance to deal with it would be very time consuming

but, it is a reality, and it affects how i look at an east coast car

cars do need to be driven, and driven regularly, if only to keep the seals lubed and the rings working - but, they also need to be put up on a lift from time to time and scrubbed in and out

none of this affects how much i like a car, or the owner, or what i think of them or anything - it only comes into play if i am thinking about taking on the maintenance of that car

[flash]

side note: a big bottle of simple green and a power washer are your friends

[Johannvb]

The fact that my valve cover, fuel rail cover and intake manifold is not powder coated drives me nuts. It is impossible to clean it and have a consistent finish. the Aluminum is always blotchy.

Porsche did some really strange things on the later 968s to cust costs. I might have them powder coated one day, but I am a stickler for the factory original look...so like with so many things on my car I am torn.

Oh yes, I paid 18 000 Euro for my car in 2008.

[flash]

i just did that - i chose wheel silver with a clear coat - i love it - my original valve cover is still perfect, but my intake manifold had a couple of chips in the paint - i did both components so as to match (though i coated a different cover, leaving my stock one perfect)

[Johannvb]

So your manifold was painted? Mine is raw aluminum. At least everything is blotchy...it matches...sorta...kinda

Edited by Johannvb, 15 February 2010 - 01:12 PM.

[flash]

yeah - the blue car is an early 94, so it was painted