29 replies to this topic

[green cs adam]

I have been preparing to write a short summary of my experience with my signal green 968 CS M030 for a while now.

I have to say, I am more than impressed by my car, it is a lot better drive than what I had expected. I was a bit sceptic about raving reviews on these cars, as I thought they must be good, but there is some nostalgic exaggeration in those stories. Now, I know that there wasn't...

I have driven a few Porkers (the best or more powerful was the 993 Turbo) and other more serious sports cars have yet to find a better drive in terms of fun than mine. I have to add that I like older cars, as new ones have to much electronics. I also own a e34 M5 Touring for daily driving (not very economical, though ).

Does anyone have any experience with GT3s? Living in Europe, my dream is a 964 RS, but a GT3 seems more realistic. I'd love to own a 928 GTS, too, but unfortunately I can't afford so many cars

I am a big fan of front engined Porsches, however, would definitely like to own a 911 once. From the extensive research I have done, I gathered that maybe a GT3 would be a good choice. Still, after having done a 100 kms in my favourite twistes - which I know pretty well on bike - last week, I can't imagine that I could go much faster in any car. Even as I couldn't be hard on the brakes, the discs need replacement, so I had to be careful. Maybe, I am getting biased, but on public roads, I truly wonder how much faster a big 911 would be.

All in all, I have done 7000 hard miles in my 968 and couldn't be more satisfied.

[flash]

i am now at the point where i find it hard to imagine a car of this weight handling much better - i find it a lot easier to toss around than any of the rear engined porsches i've driven, and a whole lot more predictable - keep in mind that mine is HEAVILY modified, and way past a CS M030, so there is some middle ground there to be had

all i want now is a bit more power to match the handling - around 325 should do it

as it stands though, i don't have any trouble keeping up with most anything in a canyon - a bit different story on a track with the right driver though (see power comment above)

that will be remedied soon enough though

[Anchorman]

As they say, Flash, "More power to ya!"

[ds968]

although I am fairly sure my next car will be a 01 or 02 DB9 ( probably within the next 5-6 years..) I suspect I will be dissapointed with the handling after driving the 968, no matter how much I may modify the suspension of the DB. But since I'm never selling the 968, hopefully I'll be able to enjoy each for its own merits .

no natural progression for me from the 968 to another porsche. they have not built it yet

My biggest fear- totalling the 968 and not finding another one for sale in great condition, in the color scheme I want, low mileage, etc..

[green cs adam]

i am now at the point where i find it hard to imagine a car of this weight handling much better - i find it a lot easier to toss around than any of the rear engined porsches i've driven, and a whole lot more predictable - keep in mind that mine is HEAVILY modified, and way past a CS M030, so there is some middle ground there to be had

all i want now is a bit more power to match the handling - around 325 should do it

as it stands though, i don't have any trouble keeping up with most anything in a canyon - a bit different story on a track with the right driver though (see power comment above)

that will be remedied soon enough though

Flash, what mods do you have (if you have the time or patience to list them) ?
my problem is that the dampers on my car are set to half stiff and they are already almost too stiff for road driving. I haven't taken it to the track, yet, but might in the spring.
So, I wouldn't like to loose anything of its practicality, not that there were much to loose , but if it becomes less practical it will be unusable on the road, I am afraid.

As for performance gains, I am thinking about the Ninemeister stage 1 (370 bhp) tuning, which is not cheap, but probably a lot cheaper than buying a GT3 .

So, there is no one who has hands on experience with a GT3 and a CS M030?

adam

[pazzer]

hey Adam it would be good to see a green 68 cs, any photo's you could put would be greatly appriciated by me and many others on this forum, i take it is not a factory colour, as clubsports only came in black, red, white, 2 shades of blue, and yellow. regards pazzer.

[green cs adam]

hey Adam it would be good to see a green 68 cs, any photo's you could put would be greatly appriciated by me and many others on this forum, i take it is not a factory colour, as clubsports only came in black, red, white, 2 shades of blue, and yellow. regards pazzer.

here is a pic. The problem is that this color cannot be photographed. Indeed, it looks totally different in the flesh. I'll try to take more photos. It was in a pretty bad shape from the outside, but mechanically there was no problem with it. When I first saw it, I was pretty worried about how it would look like when repainted (I also thought of painting it black). But now, I 'd never change its color.
Of course, I tried to find some pictures on the web, but there was only one available from a Japanese site, which didn't show much. It is just so much different in the reality.

Actually, that is why I haven't got proper photos of the car. I have had quite a few good cars (Subaru STI, turbos, etc.), but this is far superior to them in terms of involvement.

BTW, it is a factory color. It is called Signal Green, and was originally ordered in this color in Switzerland. I have it repainted, of course with the original paint.  03_11_07_1504.jpg   500.44KB   77 downloads

For some reasons, it is vertical here (but it is a horizontal picture on my laptop). Sorry about it.

[pazzer]

Thanks Adam, very cool, are you based in the UK, regards pazzer.

[flash]

adam - your complaint is a common one - it is usually because people crank up the shocks and struts, trying to stiffen up the suspension - this is wrong

springs are what determine a suspension's stiffness

shocks and struts are there to do one thing and one thing only, control the spring - you set them for the spring rate you have in the car

the other common problem is that people tend to use gas shocks in the rear - again, for this car, this causes harsh ride issues - it is a common complaint in the club sport

i'm not knocking the club sport - in its day it was a nice package - there is just better stuff out there now, and compared to cars today, it rides harshly - nice as a collector's item though

so, in a 4 year process trying to resolve that, i have in the rear:

double adjustable hydraulic shocks (set low on bump but high on compression)
coilover springs (currently 500#, going to 600# next week)
torsion bar delete
22mm rear sway bar
spherical bearing sway bar links
monoball control arm bushings
polybronze torsion bushings
grease-able polyurethane sway bar bushings

in the front, i had yellow sport konis - i ran into a spring limitation there without getting into a harsh ride - a bit over 300# was the limit - any more and further adjustment of the strut made the ride harsh - that is because the compression rate is fixed and you can only adjust the bump

i am changing those out for a double adjustable hydraulic, and will set them similar to the rears

i am going up from 300# springs to 400# springs as a result

in the front i also have:
sealed monoball lower control arm bushings
sealed monoball castor blocks
my own 31.75mm front swaybar
spherical bearing endlinks
rack attack
reduced input power steering via power pulleys
lower suspension brace
strut tower brace
delrin sway bar bushings

i am installing spherical monoball upper strut mounts this next week with the new struts

i also have 18 x 10 rear wheels with a 285/30-18 and 18 x 9 front wheels with a 255/35-18 on them

these steps have resulted in handling and ride feel WAY beyond the capabilities of a club sport - it has been a smooth and comfortable ride, with very flat cornering (much less than half of the lean and roll of even a clubsport)

there are levels between standard and mine, and we found a pretty nice middle setup for dan sandru's car, using M030 swaybars, and 250# springs on koni sports, and 95# rear helpers on adjustable hydraulic rear shocks

the problem you will have is that it is a club sport - that limits spring choices, and sticks you with the konis in there - none of the stuff i am using will work in that car

i think you would be better off starting with a standard car, and not spoiling the club sport - it would be a shame to hack that car up - you would have to remove much of what makes it a club sport

of course, those parts would sell quickly

[green cs adam]

Hi pazzer,

no, I am based in Budapest, Hungary, so pretty far, but visit the UK every now and then (by plane, though).

Thanks Flash for the thorough information. I am not a 1.0 user in terms of cars, but I am not such an expert, either. I wish we could compare our cars, but I doubt that it'll ever get to the States. I, myself, haven't been to LA for 6 years now.

Anyway, as I already wrote in an earlier post, where I was also praising the 968, I have an e34 M5 for a daily driver. I know, it is not the most practical choice for its consumption, but I have an addiction for older cars that have more character than the later, fully computerized ones.

It means that I don't use the 968 that often. On second thought, though, I put 6000 miles into it in just 6 months. Add to that, that I ride an Aprilia RSV anytime it is possible from spring till november. I wasn't really complaining about the 968's ride being too harsh, it is rather that I feel sorry for it when I have to use it in town, on these roads full of pot holes and bumps, etc.

It would be interesting to have a more supple setup which is even more fun at the same time. I am thinking about going for the KW Variant 3 coil overs that are said to be a huge improvement. About bushings, I haven't thought too much, but will consider it if you say it is worth it.

I have to go for a drink with my buddies now, but may have some questions later.

thanks
cheers
adam

[PorscheDude]

I had considered an E34 M5 a few years back. Nice car. I had a couple E24 M6's before I switched to the 944 stuff.

BTW I am not a fan of green but that signal green looks awsome.

[Cloud9...68]

I daydream about this a lot, and keep coming back to the same dilema - while today's cars have a lot to offer in terms of technology (e.g. very sophisticated variable valve timing systems, direct fuel injection, traction control, etc.) and outstanding chassis stiffness, most cars of today, inculding fantasy machines like Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, Aston Martins, the Audi R8, along with more "mundane" cars like the E46 and E92 M3, the Audi R4, etc., also tend to have another characteristic that really bugs me - they're all very heavy. All this modern technology adds weight.

So, my personal conclusion is that the car with the best combination of the best of what modern automotive technology has to offer, in a package that hasn't lost sight of the importance of relatively light weight and a high degree of driver involvement, is... no arrows please - the latest incarnation of the Boxster S. I know, I know, there are a lot of people who pooh-pooh this car, and I would have tended to agree with you, until I saw the specs on the 2007 S: a 295 hp 3.4 liter engine, in a package that weighs about what the 968 does, even though it's a convertible. Unfortunately, this latest uber-Boxster comes with a very hefty price tag - it starts at $55K, and escalates very rapidly northward from there, thanks to it's War and Peace-inspired options list. But, in two or three years, this could be a very desirable car in the used market.

As an alternative, the Corvette C6 is also tough to beat, at least in terms of performance for the dollar. I've never been much of a Corvette person myself, but I love the looks of the C6, and Chevy has managed to keep the weight of this relatively large sports car down to a commendable level. Sort of makes spending double or more for a European exotic seem a little silly.

[green cs adam]

I have to say, I do appreciate the boxster. I'd prefer a Cayman, still, or even better a RUF Cayman (but for that I'd have to rob a bank).

However, I subscribe to GT Purely Porsche, which I find acceptably biased towards 911s. The mag had an article comparing the new Cayman S to a UK spec 968 Sport. The author of the article could not really decide. I think it is a good article, and what confirms it is that a reader's letter totally agreed (the guy had both and said, he'd rather get rid of the Cayman than the 968).

Obviously, the Cayman is more luxurious and faster, but every hairdresser can buy (I think that is the stereotype) a Cayman. Of those, who drive a 968 Sport the well versed know that they are not after the image and chic of a Porsche.

I admit, that if I had to buy a new car, there are few that I would like to own, maybe a Cayman or a GT3. But if I had to choose between a new Cayman or my car plus a 928 GTS (my other favorite ), I wouldn't have to think long to take the two old cars.

This is a bit off, but I do not like the styling of newer cars. I am 31 but still much prefer the more characteristic looks of older cars. For instance, let's take the new M6. The old 635 M CSI is miles more stylish than this latest model. Of course, it is only my opinion...

But to get back to the subject. I still have an itch for a GT3, most preferably MK1. A friend who used to be a rally pilot, has a 993 RS. He has two other 911s, of which one is a 500 bhp+ Turbo. I asked if he would ever consider selling the 993 RS to me, and he said I could buy the other 2 anytime, but he'd never part with the RS.

All in all, I am right now waiting for my car to be finished. It is getting a thorough polishing and leather care treatment before going for a winter holiday in the garage. A few days after not having driven the 968, I always develop a strong desire for a 911. For it to subside, I just have to go for a quick round in the 968. From an economic (value or fun for money) point of view, I don't think a GT3 can be a justifiable purchase over the 968.

I am sorry, this has become a bit long, but it is a long wait ...

[green cs adam]

I took some photos. As I said, it is hard to get a good picture of the color. There are two pics here, one of them in the sun. These are the best I have got, so far. But in the flesh the color is a lot more vivid and shiny.


 CIMG2225.JPG   177.44KB   49 downloads  CIMG2188.JPG   180.59KB   47 downloads  CIMG2183.JPG   170.38KB   68 downloads

[PorscheDude]

Very cool.

[Cloud9...68]

I took some photos. As I said, it is hard to get a good picture of the color. There are two pics here, one of them in the sun. These are the best I have got, so far. But in the flesh the color is a lot more vivid and shiny.
 CIMG2225.JPG   177.44KB   49 downloads  CIMG2188.JPG   180.59KB   47 downloads  CIMG2183.JPG   170.38KB   68 downloads

What kind of seats do you have? And the CS steering wheel is really growing one me. The mint green key fob is a nice touch, too

[green cs adam]

What kind of seats do you have? And the CS steering wheel is really growing one me. THe mint green key fob is a nice touch, too

The key fob is Signal Green , same as the car. I love the steering wheel, too.

Seats are original Recaro ones but with leather upholstery. When the car was restored, it was easier to put leather on the seats. It is the same leather that Porsche use.

[TheMirror]

the other common problem is that people tend to use gas shocks in the rear - again, for this car, this causes harsh ride issues - it is a common complaint in the club sport

we found a pretty nice middle setup for dan sandru's car, using M030 swaybars, and 250# springs on koni sports, and 95# rear helpers on adjustable hydraulic rear shocks

Flash - curious what those hydraulic rear shocks are, can you PM me with the details? I don't wanna drift this thread....

As to the original question, if it were me I'd hold out for the 964RS. A real gem that one! Pretty far from the practical line though, they're apparently very noisy and of course do not ride like Bentleys.....

Best,
-Mirror

[uscarrera]

Adam, man up, paint the wheels green!
Rich

[PorscheDude]

I have to agree with Rich on this one.

Any photoshop experts?