53 replies to this topic

[968Syncro]

Porsche 968 Coupe 70,000 miles 6 Speed M030 Sport Package SUPER RARE - $9900

 

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/cto/5796145451.html

This car has been sitting for a long time. It has not been on the road since 08. It had a blown head gasket and I had it repaid by a factory trained Porsche mechanic, then head has been off twice. It turns out it has a cracked liner in cylinder #2. I am done. The head will need to come off for a 3rd time and a new liner will need to be installed. The car is together right now and running. Obviously you can't drive it on the street, but it does run under it's own power right now. The paint is a mess from sitting in the sun. It will need a complete paint job. The car is straight. What you see is what you get. If this was a story free car it would be worth $35,000+

 

I suppose the skilled among us could do what sounds like a full restoration.  Luckily we don't have to deal with rust.  So is this $5,000 for the engine, and $5,000 for paint, and budget $5,000 for other stuff.  Is this a good deal at $20k-25K total?  M030 with rare paint with low miles for under $25K -- is that the market today?

[danderson]

I always thought if my engine went south I would go for a Chevy LS1. To me, this car is a candidate for that.

Dwight Anderson

94 coupe

[flash]

what a mess.  

 

cracked liner???  can we say "needs a new engine"?

 

the interior looks beat.

 

parts are missing and/or broken

 

way wrong wheels

 

an M030 car is losing value every day, as the suspension components are tending to need complete renewal.

 

i would put the value of that car at no more than $5k

[ds968]

" if this was a story free car it would be worth $ 35,000 + "
Uhh, umm ... sure, why not ?! LOL

A salvage yard might pay $ 5 k -$ 7 k for it, even with a blown up engine head just parting out the rest of it must bring in a decent profit .. ?

Edited by ds968, 29 September 2016 - 07:29 PM.

[flash]

lol - no kidding.  it never ceases to amaze me at how people prize the M030 cars.  they really are a negative at this point.  there is so much better stuff out there than the M030 suspension stuff.  the only "advantage" is the larger hubs and brakes, and those are ridiculously expensive to maintain.  if somehow i was unlucky enough to have an M030 car land in my lap, the first thing i would do is strip out the struts and shocks and springs, and replace them with better stuff, as is easily found today.

 

maybe in 20 years an M030 car will add its rarity to that of the 968 in general, and be worth something, but you had better not drive it between now and then, or you can kiss any chance of appreciation goodbye.  what's the point in that?

[ds968]

And the seller mentions the rare AMETHYST paint of the car. I realize colors can look quite different in different lighting conditions, but I guess I need my eyes checked because that's the bluest amethyst I've ever seen .

[MLB]

Paint Code is L39A

Thats Amazon Green

So he meant Amazon, not Amethyst I guess

Oh, and that part is....wait for it.....not just regular "Super Rare"... no, its ... "ULTRA Super rare"!

WHOA!

Edited by MLB, 29 September 2016 - 08:47 PM.

[Big Carl]

Flash, that's the most backwards logic I have heard in a long time.

 

That is like saying if you were unlucky enough to have an original 904 Carerra GTS land in your hands you would strip out the suspension and engine because there are better options available now.

 

Why disregard the fact its 1) A Porsche 2) Limited Production 3) the highest performance available from the factory?

 

History shows again and again that originality stands the test of time, and aftermarket tuning degrades values.

 

In 20 years you can line up my M030 car on the auction block with a standard 968, all other variables equal (mileage, condition, options)

and the M030 will sell for more, guaranteed.

 

Saying M030 suspension is a negative is what people without M030 tell themselves to sleep better at night.

[Porsche968CS]

I agree, and I'm not sure what is so expensive to maintain either. Here in Europe this is certainly not the case. And as we have a lot more M030 cars available (as we have the Club Sport model) you can clearly see the differences in prices. The only mainstream 968 that fetches serious money is an M030 Club Sport. No one pays the same amount for a 968 with an up-to-date aftermarket suspension kit.

[ds968]

Listing was just removed from craigslist, so the car must have been sold ?  

[flash]

carl - i have no interest in keeping a car original, just because that's the way it came.  i also see no benefit, if it means you have to suffer driving it in its inferior condition.   i modify EVERY car if i can make it better.  an M030 car will not be worth much more than a regular one, due largely to the things i described.  it is an undesirable setup for actually driving.  the ride is rough.  the back end of the car dances around.  brakes are much more expensive, with marginal improvement in capability.  i see absolutely no advantage in having one, assuming you actually want to drive it, and in fact, i see it as a negative.  i've driven a few of them, and they are horrible.  other than autocross (which i also find ridiculous in concept) and the points you can save, i see no benefit.

 

if originality is the issue, this car makes even less sense, as EVERYTHING about the car needs to be redone.  so much for originality

 

the 968, regardless of submodel, will never become a collector with any real value.  it never had the love other collectible cars had.  that is a key component in collector value.  rarity is not enough.  there are plenty of far more rare cars out there, but the values do not reflect it.  it will have some novelty interest and cult following, but that will not result in big increases in value.  so, why would you suffer through the abuse of the M030 ride, expense of the parts, and not see any advantage?  just because you can say "it's original", or "it's an M030"?  they will all go up a bit, assuming very low mileage and great condition, but over that time, just factoring in inflation, you are still losing money.  let's say you start with a car worth $20k.  if you keep this car for 10 years, you will still be behind by $3269, comparing the CPI to cost of living $20403/$23672.  that's a bad investment.  this assumes you park the car and never drive it.  even if you use the climb in prices on low mileage clean cars over the last 5 years as a predicting tool, you barely break even.  again, a bad investment.  so, collecting one is just nuts from a financial standpoint.  i fail to comprehend collecting a car other than for financial benefit.  anything else is just bragging rights and vanity.

 

cars are meant to be driven.  they are not meant to be polished and taken out to a big lawn to show off twice a year, and then stuck in storage.  having a car and not driving it is just silly.  driving a car that beats you up, when there are better alternatives, is also as silly.

 

i am not a collector.  i don't get the concept.  i have things as long as they are useful.  once they stop being useful, they go away.  once something better comes around, i get that, and get rid of the old.  old stuff sucks.

 

i spent over $150k trying to update the 968 to compete with modern cars.  i got close.  ultimately though, for me, it stopped being useful.  the white car will go away in the not too distant future too.

 

to close, porsche philosophy is and always has been that these cars are to be daily driven.  having one and not driving it goes against that.  having one that beats the crap out of you, when you don't have to subject yourself to that, is just plain illogical.

[Bulti]

It wouldn't break one's back on German roads. Just saying.

[94SilverCab]

If having an M030 car was important to me, I would keep it absolutely bone stock and concourse condition. Like Flash, I bought my 968 for my own personal driving pleasure and I have modified it to suit my own needs. Neither is correct or incorrect. We accommodate all tastes here.

 

Jay 

[flash]

perhaps i just have higher standards regarding ride quality.  knowing that there is BETTER out there, why would i compromise?  i have driven a number of M030 cars, and i couldn't get out of them fast enough for my tastes.  to me, they are a horrible setup, predisposed to tail-happy jumping, rough in ride, with little cornering advantage.  the first time i drove one, i thought something was horribly wrong.  after driving a few more, i found it to be the nature of the setup.

 

as i, porsche, and others have said, these cars are meant to be driven.  i see no reason not to put the car into the condition that best suits that.  i see no reason to start with a car that will have a predisposition to be less that what is available.  i see no reason to incur the added cost of renewing components that are outdated and inadequate.

 

as i said, the only redeeming qualities are the larger sway bars, which are readily available, and the bigger hubs.  the brakes are debatable, and frankly i think there are better choices there too.

 

i wouldn't take an M030 car if you gave it to me, and even then, it would only be to part it out

 

sorry guys.

[Bulti]

Well, there is indeed no right or wrong in this, but I want my 90's car drive like a 90's car. The imperfections are part of the deal. The M030 kit was there for those who wanted to track their cars on occasion, or that is what I think it was for. On most non-German roads the standard suspension would be better on most occasions.

But like most factory upgrade kits, the coolness factor outweighs common sense and practicality. I wouldn't say no to an M030, altough most of our roads need some serious work.

[flash]

why have it drive like a 90s car?  i don't get that.  why not have it drive like a better and more modern car?  maybe i'm just spoiled, but now that i have driven better cars, i can't find it in myself to go backwards.  i tried, to the tune of a LOT of money.  that is what led me to letting the blue car go though.  i had been driving better cars for so long, that i found that every time i got in the 968 i felt like i was missing out on something.  as much as i had done to the car, and it had almost every modern feature, including full nav, heated seats, great sound, supple suspension with far superior handling and cornering to stock, over 340hp, bracing all over the place, and a bunch of other stuff, still it drove like an older car.  cars today are just more solid.  electronics are just plain better.  power delivery is smoother.  everything about them is superior.  i had a blast driving the 968, and nothing was as fun to toss around in a canyon, but i found myself enjoying our other cars more.  once i drove the targa gts, it was over.

 

if i wanted a raw feel and a spartan car, i would go back to british sports cars, but i know that i would always be complaining about the same things i found falling short in the 968.  still, i find myself occasionally musing about a supercharged 2 liter mgb with a 5 speed.

 

i guess i just don't get the idea.  i'm not a collector, so the "coolness factor" doesn't hit me.  i had arguably the rarest 968 on the planet.  i enjoyed that for a while.  it was cool to thumb my nose at the 911 guys.  but in the end, i lost out to common sense and practicality.  it cost me another $175k in the process too - lol.  

 

that being said, i can understand and appreciate the idea of an older and rarer car, like the 968, but i can't understand wanting to drive one that is less than it can be.  originality holds no fascination for me.  in fact, that was something that i found really annoying about pca concours events.  i want to see what somebody did with a car to bring out its best.  i could care less who used the most q-tips on their car.

 

i think they really screwed up with the M030 shocks and struts, and would yank those out in a blink.  maybe in their day they were the best you could do, but not anymore.  keep the other stuff, but dump those dampers and put in double adjustable hydraulic ones.  then you get better handling AND better ride quality.

[Bulti]

"why have it drive like a 90s car?". The answer is simple. If I want to drive a modern car, I take one. But it will be not the same. Modern cars are maybe better in the many ways you describe, but also less involving, and a different experience altogether. Dare I say boring? Our cars may have a suspension that has room for improvement, but so does the latest Ferrari. There is álways room for improvement but where does one draw the line? My wallet to mention one thing knows where that line is.

I accept the car like it is and enjoy it because the qualities it has. Granted, it could be quieter and the steering wheel is too thin and blabla. But in the end those things, to me, are irrelevant. Maybe I will upgrade my suspension too one day, but it will never be my intention to have it feel like the latest M3, because it has better handling.

I like when the butt squats to the ground when accelerating of the line. It is maybe not as efficient as could be, but it is cool and I like it the way it is.

[94SilverCab]

Bravo Bulti...there were, and are, roughly 12,000 reasons to own/drive a 968...everyone gets to enjoy theirs on their own terms.

 

And yes, if I wanted to enjoy a completely modern driving experience, I would go and buy a new car of my choice.

 

Jay

[flash]

i guess i spent too many years on the track, and too many miles on the road.  it brings to the forefront all of the failings of the 968 that result in slower speeds and less comfort.  if i were looking for a truly raw experience, i would go back to a british sports car.  the 968 is stuck in the middle.  it's fine as a compromise car, and is certainly affordable.  on that level, it probably has no equal.  but, with no budgetary restrictions, i see no reason to have less than what you can have.  most of the things about the car can be improved easily enough.  but, an M030 car limits what you can do, if you want to leave that stuff in there.

 

i'm in agreement about not wanting the ride of an M3.  i too agree that with many new cars, you are too isolated from the road to have fun.  fortunately i found a car that retains the connection to the driver and the road.  i can now toss the car around and not feel like the suspension or chassis is limiting me.  i almost got there with the blue 968.  it had really gotten close.  still though, there were things about it that felt "old".

 

i want it all.  of course, i had to pay for it to get it.  not everybody is willing to do that.  i get that.

 

the 968 is a great car.  it just has its limits.  the M030 car has more, and ones i feel are undesirable and unnecessary.

[ds968]

If you buy a 968 and plan to keep it all original because you think " purists " will be willing to spend more for it than they would for a modified 968 I think you'll have to wait a very long time for that payoff . However , this topic is entirely subjective ; some people love the M030 ride , others don't , some like sport seats , others don't , some prefer creature comforts , others want that raw feel to their cars, and everything in between ..so I think one should do whether suits their tastes and driving style when it comes to these cars . Unlike flash , I think creature comforts in a sports car or GT is a colossal waste and takes so much away from the visceral experience, it's a shame ! But great things to have in an SUV or ia big sedan I'm just suggesting you don't rely on the M030 myth as the holy grail of 968s and its incremental value to the car being of any significance because you may be disappointed .
If you buy a 968 and plan to keep it all original because you think " purists " will be willing to spend more for it than they would for a modified 968 I think you'll have to wait a very long time for that payoff . However , this topic is entirely subjective ; some people love the M030 ride , others don't , some like sport seats , others don't , some prefer creature comforts , others want that raw feel to their cars, and everything in between ..so I think one should do whether suits their tastes and driving style when it comes to these cars . Unlike flash , I think creature comforts in a sports car or GT is a colossal waste and takes so much away from the visceral experience, it's a shame ! But great things to have in an SUV or ia big sedan I'm just suggesting you don't rely on the M030 myth as the holy grail of 968s and its incremental value to the car being of any significance because you may be disappointed .
Yikes , what the heck happened to my post ?! Deja vu !🙄😟