15 replies to this topic

[968/92]

Found this high mileage black on black 968 advertised for $8500.

-the timing belt and water pump has not been changed since 13 years, yep 10 years on top of what's recommended. How risky is it to drive it back home for 14 hours and then replace the belt and water pump? Is it a fairly easy job as a DIY? Cost? It is located in sub -10 degrees C during winter and only has 21000kms on that belt which should help I guess but 13 years is a new record.
-it was involved in an accident 13 years ago, both rear fenders, owner assures me no alignment issues or structural damage. I don't really mind that but I know it affects its value and make it a lot harder to sell in the future.

I know $8500 is too much (I first thought this was the deal of the century) but it is definately a good candidate to do some work on. I've asked the owner lots of questions, timing belt and water pump is the only thing it needs. He took care of it, very strange how he didn't know about the timing belt issue for 13 years. Anyway, he is negotiable. How much would you pay for it?

[94SilverCab]

I would not recommend starting, much less driving a 968 that has 13 year old belts, regardless of mileage. While you're thinking about it, not only do the belts need replacement, every single piece of rubber on that car need to be replaced, from tires to bushings to the molding trim pieces on the body. Belt job is probably $800ish. If you do it yourself, significantly less, but you do need some specific tools.

 

I can't imagine that R&R would be any less than $15k unless you can do absolutely everything yourself and you are looking for a multi-year restoration project. In that event, I wouldn't be terribly afraid of the prior accident unless you are buying solely for investment. If your are buying for investment, this is not the right car.

 

Conventional wisdom is that a very well sorted 968 will cost you $20-25K, and that number is going up.

 

If you can get the car below $5k and you are willing to do significant work, you may have a bargain...otherwise, run for the hills.

 

JMHO,

 

Jay

[968/92]

I would not recommend starting, much less driving a 968 that has 13 year old belts, regardless of mileage. While you're thinking about it, not only do the belts need replacement, every single piece of rubber on that car need to be replaced, from tires to bushings to the molding trim pieces on the body. Belt job is probably $800ish. If you do it yourself, significantly less, but you do need some specific tools.

 

I can't imagine that R&R would be any less than $15k unless you can do absolutely everything yourself and you are looking for a multi-year restoration project. In that event, I wouldn't be terribly afraid of the prior accident unless you are buying solely for investment. If your are buying for investment, this is not the right car.

 

Conventional wisdom is that a very well sorted 968 will cost you $20-25K, and that number is going up.

 

If you can get the car below $5k and you are willing to do significant work, you may have a bargain...otherwise, run for the hills.

 

JMHO,

 

Jay

Thanks for your input. Well as I said, the owner took really good care of it. He drives it occasionally during summer time and all bushings, tires, plugs, wires and everything basic has been changed. He doesn't drive much, only 10k miles in the last 13 years. What specific tools I need exactly. Also, the vario cam job was also done 13 years ago, does that have a time limit or just mileage(which is?). Is there any PPI guide on the forum? Couldn't find it yet.

[flash]

the owner obviously did NOT take really good care of it if he left the belts unaddressed for 10 years.  it has little to do with mileage on those belts.  they are an age item on this car.  they must be done at no more than 4 year intervals, to avoid snapping a belt and crashing every valve in the engine.

 

he may have rubbed the paint and cleaned the carpets, but the belts are a clear indicator of neglect.  if he failed to do that, what else was ignored?

 

why did they do the variocam 13 years ago?  that is typically an item that does not need to be done until 100k or so.  based on how much driving was done, per the owner, the numbers don't add up there.  i would question the mileage at which the variocam was done, and then add 100k to see if it needs to be done again.

 

at that point, it is very likely the head gasket is in need of replacement.  they wear out over time on these cars.

 

at 150k, i would do a leak down test for sure.  if not already done, it will almost certainly need a valve job.

 

the motor mounts are very likely toast

 

suspension bushings are almost certainly hardened and/or cracked, and new renewal

 

has the transmission ever been serviced?

 

has the clutch ever been replaced?  those typically last 80k - 100k.  if he managed to get to 150k on the OEM clutch, you can bet it's ready

 

i would not pay more than $5k for that car, and absolutely assume i had to put at least $15k into it.

 

as stated, a cab will cost over $20k, no matter if you buy a cheap car and fix it, or buy one already done.  even then, the car can easily cost you, on average, close to $1000 a year to maintain.  prepare yourself for that reality.  if you can't afford that, think about a diferent model

[968/92]

the owner obviously did NOT take really good care of it if he left the belts unaddressed for 10 years.  it has little to do with mileage on those belts.  they are an age item on this car.  they must be done at no more than 4 year intervals, to avoid snapping a belt and crashing every valve in the engine.

 

he may have rubbed the paint and cleaned the carpets, but the belts are a clear indicator of neglect.  if he failed to do that, what else was ignored?

 

why did they do the variocam 13 years ago?  that is typically an item that does not need to be done until 100k or so.  based on how much driving was done, per the owner, the numbers don't add up there.  i would question the mileage at which the variocam was done, and then add 100k to see if it needs to be done again.

 

at that point, it is very likely the head gasket is in need of replacement.  they wear out over time on these cars.

 

at 150k, i would do a leak down test for sure.  if not already done, it will almost certainly need a valve job.

 

the motor mounts are very likely toast

 

suspension bushings are almost certainly hardened and/or cracked, and new renewal

 

has the transmission ever been serviced?

 

has the clutch ever been replaced?  those typically last 80k - 100k.  if he managed to get to 150k on the OEM clutch, you can bet it's ready

 

i would not pay more than $5k for that car, and absolutely assume i had to put at least $15k into it.

 

as stated, a cab will cost over $20k, no matter if you buy a cheap car and fix it, or buy one already done.  even then, the car can easily cost you, on average, close to $1000 a year to maintain.  prepare yourself for that reality.  if you can't afford that, think about a diferent model

The vario cam was done at 142k 13 years ago with records to prove (it has 155k now), clutch was changed at that time also. Motor mounts and suspension bushings were changed 6 years ago. Balance shaft belt done last year, now why wouldn't he do the timing belt at the same time is beyond me. 

[flash]

if he used OEM mounts and bushings, then they are probably fine.  if he used the cheap aftermarket ones that are all over the place out there, then they are likely due again.

 

very odd indeed to not do the timing belt.  perhaps he shredded the balance shaft belt, and thought the timing belt was fine.  big mistake.  that line of thinking has gotten many of us into trouble, and can easily cost $5k as a result.

 

carefully inspect the top.  look closely at the stitching across the bows.  it should be black.  all tops only have black stitching.  that fades over time, and becomes grey/white.  if the stitches start fraying or popping, the rest of the top is not far behind

 

definitely drive it.  listen closely to the trans.

[968/92]

if he used OEM mounts and bushings, then they are probably fine.  if he used the cheap aftermarket ones that are all over the place out there, then they are likely due again.

 

very odd indeed to not do the timing belt.  perhaps he shredded the balance shaft belt, and thought the timing belt was fine.  big mistake.  that line of thinking has gotten many of us into trouble, and can easily cost $5k as a result.

 

carefully inspect the top.  look closely at the stitching across the bows.  it should be black.  all tops only have black stitching.  that fades over time, and becomes grey/white.  if the stitches start fraying or popping, the rest of the top is not far behind

 

definitely drive it.  listen closely to the trans.

It's a coupe, not a fan of the cab. Is there a PPI list posted somewhere? Would I be insane if I drive it back home (15 hrs) with a 13 year old belt in case I get a good deal? 

[MCL968]

I think the combined experience of this group is clear, DON'T DRIVE IT HOME! I drove mine home with a 5 year old belt and when I took it to my shop for replacement my mechanic showed me the belt and told me I dodged a bullet. It was not shot, but it was showing its age, and it was soaked with oil from the balance shaft seals.

 

A red 1995 cab I was looking at in San Diego had a 6 year old belt, which mentioned to the salesman needed to be replaced. This salesman "knew a lot" about Porsches, and he insisted that the belts were good for 120k (the car had 65k at the time), I didn't buy the car, and the next week, while on a test drive, valves met pistons and the value of the car dropped to about half of the asking price of $13,500.

 

It's a calculated risk, but with a belt at that age, the risk is too great for most of us on this forum. Ultimately the decision is yours.

 

And the only belts to use are Gates, The Conti's are too stretchy and the Daytons are stiff and noisy. After trying all three, I stick with Gates.

[94SilverCab]

It's a coupe, not a fan of the cab. Is there a PPI list posted somewhere? Would I be insane if I drive it back home (15 hrs) with a 13 year old belt in case I get a good deal? 

 

If you decide to drive it home 15 hours, can I send you a list of parts I want off of your salvage 968?

 

Jay

[Rap]

Walk away. There is another car out there waiting for you.

[Kaj Hallstrom]

All this does not sound good. Your best advise, walk away and keep looking. It took me three years before I found one acceptable and even then I changed all belts, rollers and water pump many many other things.

[968/92]

I think the combined experience of this group is clear, DON'T DRIVE IT HOME! I drove mine home with a 5 year old belt and when I took it to my shop for replacement my mechanic showed me the belt and told me I dodged a bullet. It was not shot, but it was showing its age, and it was soaked with oil from the balance shaft seals.

 

A red 1995 cab I was looking at in San Diego had a 6 year old belt, which mentioned to the salesman needed to be replaced. This salesman "knew a lot" about Porsches, and he insisted that the belts were good for 120k (the car had 65k at the time), I didn't buy the car, and the next week, while on a test drive, valves met pistons and the value of the car dropped to about half of the asking price of $13,500.

 

It's a calculated risk, but with a belt at that age, the risk is too great for most of us on this forum. Ultimately the decision is yours.

 

And the only belts to use are Gates, The Conti's are too stretchy and the Daytons are stiff and noisy. After trying all three, I stick with Gates.

I still think it is worth saving so I plan to replace the timimg chain at his location in case he let it go at a reasonable price. I contacted his local stealership for a quote for timing chain replacement, I'll have it by tomorrow. Will try some euro techs also tomorrow. How long does the whole job take by a mechanic vs diy? Would be fun if I do it in his garage but that would be too risky in case something goes wrong. 

 

That is the only way I can be sure that it won't die on me on the way back. I'll meet him wherever it'll get fixed so it wouldn't snap on my way there. I'll have a paper clip for the dme relay ready too. Anything else? 

I think that plan should be approved by the forum hopefully   I thought BMWs were finiky, porsches are on a whole different level. But gotta admit that they seem more reliable when maintenance is done on time! 

[968/92]

 

If you decide to drive it home 15 hours, can I send you a list of parts I want off of your salvage 968?

 

Jay

That made me look for a plan B.

[94SilverCab]

That made me look for a plan B.

 Glad I made you give this proper consideration. 

 

If you get the belts changed,I would suggest ordering a DME Relay for $30, you want to have a spare anyway.

 

Also, a Heater Control Valve (HCV) is worth keeping as a spare and a known weak point, again, very cheap insurance.

 

Those are the most likely things that will keep you from making it home...after that, the real work begins...

 

Jay

[MCL968]

Believe it or not, I am pleased that you want to save the car. From an economic standpoint, it may not be the best decision, but too many of these cars are winding up in pieces because their value is greater in parts than it is as a whole car. You seem committed to making the car a solid driver, so maybe the car needs you as much as you want the car.

 

Jay's comments are spot on, but I would like to add that you should learn how to raise the headlights in manual mode, and maybe settle for bringing a short piece of copper pipe to bypass the heater control valve should it fail.

 

Personally, I would have it hauled back to where you can do the job once and do it right. When you do the belts, you are going to want to do the rollers, the balance shaft seals, the water pump, the heater control valve, the other drive belts, and whatever else you find when you have it apart (fan switch, hoses, etc...). This is not a job to rush through just so you can get it on the road and get home.

 

As my father in law used to always tell me, "there's never time to do it right, but always time to do it twice". If you do these jobs right the first time, you won't have to think about them again, and you can go on to the millions of other little things that need addressing.

[flash]

lol - i'll take the opposite point of view.  i'm impatient and i'd like to see more of these cars destroyed.  it would significantly raise the value of those remaining.  that will ultimately happen on its own though, as more and more people find that they cannot afford to maintain these cars, and fewer and fewer shops are willing to work on them, and parts become harder and harder to find than the already are.