40 replies to this topic

[Ab54666]

Maybe i'm missing something here, but you are wanting to sell a forum for $15k? The site by your own admissions currently makes no revenue other than to cover the running expenses?

 

I always admire people who put in the time (and no doubt some money) to run forums, but I don't think i've ever seen one or heard of one selling before. And why would someone buy one (this one or otherwise), sorry but I just don't get it, i'm as much as a fan of the 968 as anyone but.......

[flash]

the only reason it doesn't make any money is because we have deliberately not pursued sponsors.  those that we have had, came to us.  they would not be hard to get however.  i already have a lead list.  i just don't want to spend the time and energy to land them.  the site could easily make $10k-20k a year, but i don't need the money, and it wasn't worth my time.  it's a lot easier for me to make $20k elsewhere for less effort and time.  it might be worth it to somebody else though.

 

i bought it because i wanted to see it continue.  eric was moving on.  without somebody at the helm, it would die.

 

i also saw it as an advertising platform for Design 1 Racing.  other vendors would see it as an advertising platform as well.

 

as an example of forums making money, rennlist makes over $100k a year, and sold for more than that.

[ds968]

I'm surprised R.L. makes ONLY $ 100 K / year... that forum encompasses pretty much every Porsche model ever made...but maybe competition from Pelican and other sites cuts into that market corner ..

Edited by ds968, 29 December 2015 - 01:54 PM.

[flash]

not ONLY $100k.  i said OVER $100k

[Kim]

Well I guess that it is time for me to interject a comment or two here.  I am well aware that if I offered to buy the site my offer would be rejected, and I also do not want to buy the site or really have anything to do with it other than look here everyday as a guy who once owned 2 968s and enjoyed (and still enjoy) being a 968-less member.  Nonetheless, here goes.

 

I sold some businesses a couple of years ago - 2 in 2008 and 4 others in 2012. I can tell you that new owners will want nothing to do with old ownership and, if old ownership wants to have some sort of controlling interest in the forum with some new minority members then I think that it would be very unlikely to find anyone who was interested. New owners either buy it all or buy something else.

 

Flash (and Jay too, but this conversation seems to be under the direction of Flash), if you 1) no longer have interest in 968s, haven't the time or interest to manage the admin stuff, 2) don't have the time or the interest to have it make money, 3) won't be continuing the platform D1R that benefited from the forums, and 4) want the forums to be in new hands, then do yourself a favour buddy and just move on.  Sure, it won't be what YOU want it to be - it will be something else that might not be worse - but what will it be if you hang on and don't want to participate? You can't steer a parked car. You made the leap with the cars (and seem to be very happy with it), are making the leap with D1R (and seem to be happy with it), so make one more leap.  Sell it to whomever will pay what you want and don't look back.

 

The forum will move on for better or worse with new owners. You will not likely be forgotten but will not likely be needed for long either. Not negative, not positive, just a fact.

 

Unlike Grand Funk Railroad, I am just outside looking in.

Edited by Kim, 29 December 2015 - 03:55 PM.

[flash]

we have a vision.  nothing more than that really, that we want to see kept intact.  the specifics of that would be up to the new owner(s).  nobody is saying we want any sort of control over it.  however, a brand can absolutely put some "restrictions" on a new owner.  it's part of being able to carry the brand name forward. it can't be dead hand but it can be a framework.  we are not interested in anything more than that.  it would be things like:

 

always free to members

encourage open discussion

maintain the database

keep threads on track so the site doesn't become a useless repetitive pile like other sites have become

vet advertisers

 

basically it's a desire to maintain the integrity for which this site has developed the highest of reputations.  nothing more.  nothing less.

[ds968]

Ugh, Flash and Jay have an unenviable decision to make because I agree with Kim's take on any prospective new owner(s) : they will likely only offer to buy the forum with an absolute " no conditions " clause.
I'm afraid that restrictions of any kind might be a deal killer ; maintaining the same vision, the scope, the decorum is unlikely to be a negotiable issue...so you either sell it with that compromise in mind, or you let the forum die ( which none of us want to see ..) . Maybe we'll be fortunate and some members with an appetite to take it over would be willing to maintain the current standards, but I have a gut feeling no one here has the drive to dedicate the time and effort required of such a venture ..

Edited by ds968, 29 December 2015 - 08:57 PM.

[Rap]

We sold our adolescent facility to a guy that kept all the employees on, kept the benefits, gave them raises to replace a 401k but changed it to an adult facility. He promised that his goal was to run a facility in keeping with the traditions that we had always believed in. He took a turn key operation and has driven it into the ground. 75% of the employees were let go. Why? Only 10 beds out of a 66 bed facility could be kept filled. It in no way resembles what he bought.
Dan and Kim are correct in their opinions. I've been a member of the Forum since I bought my first 968 and will continue to be. I'm not as technically oriented as most of the members here are but I have enjoyed many pleasant hours and laughs. I also developed some good friends. The site will be what the members make of it as it always has. Change is enevitable in life and business. If new owners change the site then the membership will decide how they choose to deal with these changes.
The members will decide what the future of the site will be!

[ds968]

And what RAP said ( the site being what members make it to be , current and future ..or no future ) could be a compelling argument for any interested owners to keep tne scope and standards and all the other attributes which make this site so beneficial to our relatively small community . I've said this many times before but I don't see anything wrong with a reasonable membership fee being introduced if that's what it takes to keep the forum afloat until more sponsorship is sought and attained .

[williamoss]

Perhaps a new thread of those interested in being an joint owner of the site is warranted. That way those on this new thread would and could get together and make a real offer to buy it. .

[flash]

businesses sell all the time, and the branding stays intact, and for good reason  look at volkswagon and porsche.  there were a LOT of strings attached.  while things changed, the vision of the company remained intact.  yes, the new owner can make their own changes, but the branding is essential.  otherwise, just start your own company.  there is a reason to buy an existing company.  it has things that a buyer wants, beyond just a customer base.  however, that customer base is there because that business has something they want, and one would be foolish to mess with that.  all we want is to ensure that those things remain intact.

 

nobody is saying that there are going to be a lot of restrictions, but the ones i listed above are a no brainer.  you would have to be an idiot to mess with that list, as the obvious results of that are easily found on other sites.  that's why more 968 owners come here than all other sites combined.

[94SilverCab]

I truly do not believe that the 5 conditions stated above are onerous for a new ownership. These are the guiding principles that founded this site and we have done everything in our power to maintain these standards. I would never try to force any additional conditions on new ownership, and have no interest in keeping control once the site is sold, though I would be honored if my title was changed to Ex Officio.

 

As I have stated previously, I am not in as much of a hurry to sell as Bob. I still have, and will have for the foreseeable future my 968. So I still have a selfish interest in seeing this site continue. That said, I have been putting the pieces in place and have plans in the next several years to retire early and spend my remaining decades seeing the world. Sentimentally, I would like to know that this little home was being taken care of in my absence.

 

Happy New Year to everyone,

 

Jay 

Edited by 94SilverCab, 30 December 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[Kim]

I think, without trying to put to fine a point on it, that the issue for most potentially interested parties is likely less to do with maintaining the 5 operating conditions as noted earlier as it does perhaps ensuring that new owners are just that - owners - and are free to make their own decisions as they see fit. New owners do not want input from old owners (I speak from experience as I was "shuffled along") unless they ask for it. Everything that I read here suggests that this is NOT the plan.

 

To my way of thinking, the options are 1) the existing owners keep it and do as they see fit because they do not want the forum to deviate from the tried and true plan - it's been doing well so far so that probably could continue, 2) the existing owners sell it and move out of the way because they really want out, and 3) the existing owners sell some of it to a group of individuals, none in any great quantity, and then everyone spends an inordinate amount of time disagreeing on everything. And #3 assumes that there will be anyone who even wants to go down that road.

 

But, when it all is said and done, it's just a Flash in the pan, so to speak.

[flash]

i have no interest or intention in having anything to do with the operation of the site, once it is sold.  i can provide assistance at the onset, if requested, just as eric did when he sold it to me, but frankly it is my desire to get away from this all but completely.  my participation has dramatically decreased in the last months, and i see it continuing to do that.

 

i'm not in a "hurry" per se, but i am the type that likes to clear the books when i am done with something.  i don't like loose ends, and this site is a loose end to me, in terms of my involvement with 968s.

[Rap]

Bob I agree with what you say.

[Ab54666]

My original query was around the price, in that I don't get the value at $15k or anything else to be honest, for a forum which by the sellers admissions doesn't make money (although they say it could).

 

I hope someone buy's it to keep it going but I think it'll be a while before someone stumps up hard earned cash for it.

 

They aren't making anymore 968's.........

[Rap]

Not making money can be defined many different ways. For example, one's expenses match revenues.

[Kim]

making money usually requires the former to be less than the latter.

[flash]

the site makes more than it spends.  that's all we needed it to do, so there was no point in pursuing revenue generation anything any further.  i don't need the $10k-$20k the site could easily make from sponsors.  i have other things that generate a lot more money per minute spent.  these days it has to hit 6 digits per year before i start looking at it anyway, and i don't see this site doing that.  however, somebody else might feel differently.  they also might have the same kinds of motivations i had when i bought the site.

 

so "value" is subjective.  somebody who is passionate about the car, maintaining its presence, and perpetuating the support to the community might find value in merely helping others.  others might see it as a revenue generator.  sites like this do indeed make money, if you spend a little time gathering advertisers.  look at facebook.

[ds968]

So timely ..here's how one owner feels, in retrospect , about selling his life's work to someone else :
https://www.yahoo.co...-213813307.html