77 replies to this topic

[Cloud9...68]

The problem with going down the full track route is that the repairs can get very expensive and much more frequent. They are very good street cars.

Yes, but at least there is a market for track cars with a good record, of course with a log book, as Flash says. That's why I ended up where I am - after having no luck selling it, I figured I could at least continue to have fun with it at the track. Is that something you'd consider if you just have no luck getting the price you want? It seems like it wouldn't take a huge amount to turn into a full-time track car.

[Inkedupfatboy]

For sale - low mileage 968...

[rl968]

Yes, but at least there is a market for track cars with a good record, of course with a log book, as Flash says. That's why I ended up where I am - after having no luck selling it, I figured I could at least continue to have fun with it at the track. Is that something you'd consider if you just have no luck getting the price you want? It seems like it wouldn't take a huge amount to turn into a full-time track car.

These cars are not great track cars, they are fun on the track, but they are really too heavy and underpowered, parts can also be harder to find and pretty epensive. You are better off with a $3000 944, also underpowered, but at 1/3 the cost. On the street it's different, these blow away a 944 in every respect and for me, there is no comparison.

[flash]

exactly. that's why, after taking mine out a few times, i quickly decided to put it back on the street, before i beat the heck out of it.

[94SilverCab]

These cars are not great track cars, they are fun on the track, but they are really too heavy and underpowered, parts can also be harder to find and pretty epensive. You are better off with a $3000 944, also underpowered, but at 1/3 the cost. On the street it's different, these blow away a 944 in every respect and for me, there is no comparison.

I think some very well regarded (and often winning) race car drivers would disagreee with you

Jay

[flash]

you can track anything. they race pickup trucks and tractors too. a great driver can win with a volvo. i've seen it.

saying the 968 is a great track car is like saying it's the smartest kid on the short yellow bus.

in the very finite world of the class in which they race, maybe, but open that up, and suddenly the 968 falls down. if you only want to compete within the small box of cars in the 968 class, then that's fine. but if you really want to go fast, you'll get into a smaller and lighter car, or one with more power, or both.

but back on topic AGAIN

to sell a 968, you really have to list everything about the car. you have 2 audiences. you have the completely oblivious who know nothing about the car, and you have the group who does know about the 968. the first group will run away from higher priced cars, and only use other ads for their price evaluation. those who know the 968 will want to know a lot about the car.

[Inkedupfatboy]

Hey, watch those Volvo cracks.

But seriously, nothing, and I mean NOTHING is selling anywhere right now. I have stuff listed on Etsy & eBay and nothing is moving...I think people went back into pucker mode. Good luck on the sale, If you were closer, I might make you an offer on it.

Edited by Inkedupfatboy, 19 June 2013 - 05:10 AM.

[rl968]

I think some very well regarded (and often winning) race car drivers would disagreee with you

Jay

Yes, if you can drop 400-500 lbs like they do, the car is a rocket, but then you've really crossed the line and the costs associated with it go way up.

[tamathumper]

Yes, if you can drop 400-500 lbs like they do, the car is a rocket, but then you've really crossed the line and the costs associated with it go way up.

"Racing" is just another word for "spending"... you can make a small fortune racing, if you start with a large one.

[flash]

back on topic AGAIN - come on guys

a car that has been tracked can be viewed 2 ways:

1. tracked cars are generally better maintained than cars just commuted. the owners are usually more enthusiastic about their car, and are also more likely to be trying to get the most out of the performance, so are usually on top of things more.

2. a tracked car will show more cosmetic abuse than a commuted car. they guy looking for the clean paint job and such won't be as happy, and will tend to shy away.

for the purposes of selling, i think it really depends on where you advertise, as to whether or not it will be a plus or minus. here, it's probably fine. on craig's list, it's probably not.

[rl968]

Yeah, that's the challenge. I've tracked the car 15-20 times, but I have maintained it big time. Ive had it for three years and only put 3k miles on it and you can see from the list all that's been done. The track exposes all the weaknesses. Yet, people hear it was tracked, and they get scared and move along. I'd much rather have a lightly tracked car than one with low miles that hasn't been run much. That's the car whose timing belt will break unexpectedly, or tranny blow up.

I'm going to advertise it on cars.com in a month or so with an ask of 13. I've got a little work to do, including removing straight pipe exhaust and putting original w/cat back on, removing harness bar and putting old belts back in, and tracing why my compressor isn't getting 12v. Other than that, pretty much set to go. Has mo30 upgrade front and rear, I'd think that would be desirable on the street, same with new koni shocks and struts. I had car lowered, but I would think that too would be a nice feature as it makes car look more aggressive. Rotors are porsche and pads are hawk, and thy have 75% life. There's a lot more, but will others see value in it is the question...

[flash]

well, you have a similar situation to many of us. we have all done things that we think are cool, but not necessarily everybody does. even the M030 is a weird one. the suspension is rough riding and the brakes are expensive, BUT the car performs better than stock. is that good or bad? depends on the buyer. everything is pretty much like that.

that's why i think that listing everything is the key. if you answer the questions up front, what you will get is somebody truly interested in the car, and not the same endless list of questions and such.

[ds968]

Just as a frame of reference - a 94 black/black coupe, Tip, with 150k miles on the odo in reportedly excellent cosmetic shape , represented as being in outstanding mechanical condition, and with various upgrades , just sold on eBay for $ 8,200 . ( I had a bid on it ...even though I'm not fond of black exterior or interior cars ) This market sucks and people have no clue what a gem this car truly is. And those who do, are still looking for a bargain basement price because... the market sucks.

Edited by ds968, 19 June 2013 - 05:12 PM.

[flash]

that's the thing. everybody lists their car "in great shape". you have to go through a bunch of crap to get the real deal. that's why nearly everybody ends up spending $20k before they get a car sorted out. these cars almost always need some major stuff, whether its "ever been a problem before" or not. most people don't know what to look for. for example, i have yet to see a car that didn't need suspension bushings if it had original ones. most of them have not had their brake fluid changed regularly, which means all hydraulic rubber components need to be changed. most have never had the transaxle serviced. that fluid is supposed to come out of there every 5 years tops.

that's why i say that listing everything is what sells a car. the more you put down, the more it becomes clear that the car is in good shape. it's a comfort zone thing. with internet advertising, there is no reason not to spell it all out. you aren't being charged by the word.

[psuphoto]

I love my car, but I love my kids (who are in college) even more. Now that I'm an empty nester I had time to finally start reading all the awesome posts in this forum. Just replaced the battery, fixed the A/C, eliminated the Check engine light and purchased a battery maintainer. Only put $1000 into it this year! My local mechanic's prices keep going up and the freebees I used to get are gone. Empty nest or not, I don't have the time to DIY keep this car running awesome. I certainly won't have the money to keep pumping into it for at least 3 years (see above: 3 kids in college). I just need really good advice: 1. How to get over the feeling like I'm betraying this forum by selling it. 2. getting over the feeling of betraying my car (as I will be selling it). 3 if I do sell it, was wondering about how to price it? I was thinking $6,300 -$8,300 range for a car with 130Km (1000 miles, not kilometers) that runs great is about right based on what everyone is saying. Thanks

[Cloud9...68]

psuphoto,

Don't feel like you're betraying anybody (or anything) by selling your car - you have to do what's right for you, and hopefully it will end up in the hands of somebody who will appreciate it and give it the attention it needs. You seem to be very realistic with your pricing, which will help it move. Best of luck.

[Rap]

I suspect the pricing of our cars is somewhat similar to the pricing of our homes when we sell them. Who among us doesn't want to get top dollar and rationalizes a higher price? The market then determines what the real price is going to be at the sale. Having purchased two 968's at widely different prices, I would agree with the sentiment expresses here that more info is likely to separate the chaff from the wheat. My first purchase is not a good example because I knew the owner and knew the car was mint. Yet only because I knew the owner and I wanted it did I not haggle over the price. The second car was purchased in a more informed manner. I knew more about the 968 and utilized member knowledge, advice and suggestion on not only pricing but selection. The previous owner of the second car was not as informed on 968's as I and I used this to negotiate a more realistic price on the car. A PPI defined the parameters of the pricing negotiations. He didn't get the price he wanted and I didn't get the price I wanted. Yet we came to an agreement that was satisfactory to both of us.
I will never get my money back from the red car because it has been modded for the track. As a matter of fact, even though I did a substantial amount of preventative maintenance and replacement, things continue to need repair and replacement. This is a twenty year old car with some high mileage and this is to be expected.
Selling a car is similar to any other sale. Posting the car on high trafficked sites is necessary. If your looking to buy a 968 you will browse these sites. If your just looking to buy a sports car, quiet Bob, you will likely also browse these sites. Numbers always tell the truth. The more potential people see your car the better chance you have of selling it!
This car has suffered from the moniker of the"poor mans Porsche". This actually is a selling point that I would use to appeal to the uninitiated who might be looking to step out into unexplored territory for them. Those that spend the time necessary to research all the info needed to make a decision about what type of sports car to buy, quiet Bob, may decide there are other cars that provide a better buy opportunity.
So just how badly do you want and need to sell your 968? Bob thank you for your patience in dealing with my obvious lack of knowledge of what a real sports car actually is! Lol couldn't resist!!

[Cloud9...68]

Just curiouos, but does anyone have any first-hand info on any high-mileage 968's (say over 130K miles) that have sold for what would be considered a "high" price, say over $13K? To keep it simple, let's restrict it to 6-speed coupes. Over the years, I've read a lot of stetements on this site to the effect of, "I'd rather have a higher mileage 968, even one that's been tracked to some extent, with a solid maintenance record than a lower mileage example with a less complete history," but, and this is admittedly purely anecdotal on my part, when I look through places like autotrader, I see lots of apparently well-maintained higher-mileage 968s languishing for a long time, even after the asking price has been significantly dropped, while those under say, 70K miles at least appear to command a significantly higher price. In other words, my relatively uneducated impression is that mileage is everything in the mind of most buyers, and no matter what you do, short of a document complete tear-down restoration (which would be prohibitively expensive for one of these cars), once you hit a certain number on the odometer, it's pretty much over as far as any real value on these cars. But of course, I could easily be convinced of the contrary with some data.

[flash]

while i think that most people would want a lower mileage car, and that would be the biggest issue, records are playing a larger role in decisions amongst those who know these cars. it won't have the same affect on the buyer that doesn't know the 968 though. they will look at things like cleanliness, originality, paint condition, yada yada. but, for those of us who have been messing with these for a while, we know how important maintenance is. if we were to shop for a car, all other things being equal, we would likely balance complete records and up to date maintenance, which goes well beyond what the manual says to do, against mileage, and would choose a well maintained car with higher mileage over a lower mileage car with no maintenance. of course we would also factor in the cost to bring the lower mileage car up to date, see where both cars would be in the end, and then weigh that in as well.

as for real data, since most of us already have the car, not too many of us are buying, so there won't likely be a lot of data, and our feelings will be just that.

of course, saying that, i would still take the lower mileage car. i would just expect to spend $6-7k on it right out of the gate, before even starting it up. i got lucky with the white car, and only spent about $4k after the $19k purchase price nearly 4 years ago (not counting transport costs). it's due for bushings though. they are pretty old and showing cracking. it also needs a new top now, since the stitching is popping across the top bows. so, i'll be in for another $4k. that will make $29k all in. in today's market, with prices where they are, a similar car would also cost about $29k after bringing it up to snuff.

[ds968]

I also agree that mileage is everything in the mind of most buyers and the only way to overcome that is to a see a high mileage car in mint condition, in person ..otherwise it's very difficult to change the mileage mind set.

I don't know first hand of sales prices for low mileage 968s but in the last year I have seen asking prices which are in the mid-high 20s for six speed coupes with less than 70k miles , and one listed at $ 39 k . In fairness, that one had ( IIRC ) less than 10k miles on it . I contacted the seller ( it was at a dealer ) just out of curiosity and they indicated they received two offers around $ 35 K , but they did not budge - he was confident of getting the whole $ 39 K asking price. That was about three or four months ago.

Btw, who in the world referred to this car a " poor man's Porsche " ? I always thought that distinction belonged solely to the 924.
The 968 price when new was not that far off a basic 911 of the same year. I do recall hearing that term again re the Boxsters when they first came out .