27 replies to this topic

[mylz87]

Guys -
I'm looking for other opinions - (I have my own)

I looked at a 94' with 80K miles and no major service done since 2001.
The last service record dated 2011....noted that it needed front and rear crankshaft seals, power steering hoses & misc. front seals....estimated to be $2200. There is no record of timing belt maintenance since 1998. (clutch replaced in 97').

The car has been driven approx. 20K miles since 2001. (odometer repair in 2011).
From the photos I have looked at, the car is clean but not mint, has some garage rash.

I may be way off, but lt seems like it needs about 4-5K in maintenance, plus what ever else I dont know know about.
Given the above, if the car were purchased at say......8k, would the Up and Running price be reasonable?

The car is advertised online and listed in Chicago, I'm sure someone else has looked at.

Looks like the car has been driven, but only the run-of-mill maintenance done: oil change, door handle fix, odometer fix.
No major maintenance.

Comments??

Thanks
Mylz87

[968Syncro]

I hope others comment, but:
- as a minimum it will need new tires.
- and the belts as "insurance" if there is no knowledge of when they were last done. Front seals at the same time.
- change all the fluids (all of them)
- there are fuel hoses that go bad, create a smell in the interior (coupe only perhaps, not sure).
- may want to get a full high quality detail job also.

Probably the rule of thumb is to reserve at least $2-3K for postponed maintenance / repairs for any 18 year old car purchase.

Hard to tell if $4-5K on top of an $8K purchase price will create a 968 worth $12-13K. It is often better to buy the $12-13K car that has full service records and no obvious flaws (and therefore hopefully no hidden land mines).

The best investment you can make for any used car purchase is to get a PPI. There must be a highly regarded Porsche mechanic in Chicago where you can arrange a PPI, preferably someone with 944 / 968 expertise. I've done that for every Porsche I've ever purchased, they've run about $150 or so, maybe $200 today. The best money you can spend. Amazing what the experts will find that the seller doesn't even know about, or you can't uncover.

Roland

[Chris Vais]

+1 on the PPI
I wouldn't even start this car without cam and balance shaft belt change. The belts are good for 30K miles or 3 years. While it may be true that the car has been recently driven, if the cam belts are timed out as they may be in this case, they are prone to failure. If they fail, the damage to the engine can be very expensive to repair. You can do the cam and balance shaft seals at the same time and I'd be inclined to include the water pump while you are in there. Including the items that Roland noted, $4 to 5K might not be quite enough.

[Rap]

I second the PPI. I just bought a 93 coupe and the PPI turned up some hidden issues on an otherwise well maintained car. This may be a walk away one. Patience and due diligence will serve you well here.

[tamathumper]

P... P... I...

From your description, this car has at least enough maintenance to get you up to $15K in the first year. Rubber and plastic just get old, no matter the brand. The car won't be worth more than that any time soon (if ever), so everything over that will be well and truly "for the love" (or "for the lulz" as the kids say).

[mbardeen]

I bought a pretty abused/neglected 968 Cab. I had a mechanic (maybe not a competent one) look it over and give me an idea of what I needed, but he missed a bunch of problems. Doing all the work myself, I've spent probably $5k in parts alone. Granted, I'm sure I've done stuff that hasn't needed doing, just because "while I'm in there.." I still need to put in a bunch more to get it perfect. Lots of what I have spent has been on things that I and the mechanic considered "inconsequential", like fixing the door handles, and various cosmetic bits that had gone missing over the years.

I'm not doing this because I want to make money on it, but because I happen to think the 968 represents an interesting moment in the Porsche chronicle and wanted to see the car saved (i.e., "for the love").

So yes, to re-iterate what others have said get a PPI by a competent Porsche mechanic who knows the 944/968, unless you're like me and really enjoy throwing good money after the bad.

[Darryl]

Yes, as others have suggested, get a PPI. If for nothing else, it will give you a starting point. There are other threads on here about purchase price, cost of ownership, etc. One thing that always sticks in my mind is the 20K figure. Basically, by the time your done, you'll have roughly 20K in a fairly nice, up to date, reliable car. Buy it for 8K and you may end up with 12K of rejuvenation. Buy one for 14K and you may only end spending 6K. Of course, these numbers are arbitrary and include any desired repairs in addition to the necessary ones. You'll save a bunch by doing stuff yourself if and when you can. It is doubtful you'll ever sell it for what you end up investing in it, so buy it, fix it, drive it, enjoy it. Just like any other 16-20 year old car, part of it is a labor of love.

- Darryl

[flash]

i agree - don't even start it without getting belts done. high belt stress loads occur at startup. you could easily snap one at that moment, and be in for a very expensive repair as a result.

based on your list, and gap in maintenance, i would say $4k-$5k is perhaps even low.

[mylz87]

Thanks for the feed back and confirming my thoughts. I believe in a PPI inspection myself and I have recommended it to others as well.
A little surprised that most of the responses think 4-5K is low, but thats a good thing!

Stay tuned!

mylz87

[Rap]

Here is another thought on a lower priced 968. Once you start it becomes very tempting to repair or replace things you hadn't planned on, Often for a variety of very good reasons. My first 968 was a queen and I paid for it. My second was a bit of a beater and I've now paid more for it than the first. Granted there are differences in what my usage will be but, saying no to drugs with a 10 bag a day habit is easier than saying no to getting something done to the car. Least ways it seems to be for me! Point being, paying more for a well sorted, properly maintained and serviced car is almost always a better bet than buying inexpensive. Unless your going to track the car.

[Kim]

And when you are selling one assume that the repairs noted as needed by the purchaser will be 50% more than you thought, resulting in an offered price of 50% of what you wanted. Its called the 50% rule.

For me, I guess, a well-used but frequently repaired car may be in better shape that a seldom used and seldom repaired car. In my white car, for example, with 386,000 km, not much that moves hasn't been replaced a couple of times. So not much is really old. For example, the 3rd starter and 3rd A/C compressor are being installed next week. In my cab, same year but only 73,000 km, most everything is original other than belts.

Its a turkey shoot.

[hot968]

post #6Mdardeen BOY you took the words right out of my mouth! I absolutley agree with every thing you said even wanting to preserve the 968. My new purchase was and still is a mess and I knwo it would need a ton of money and work- but I love the ride

[MLB]

I bought this car in January, and I think it is proving to be as advertised. Service history is thin for the past almost 15 years, but also very few miles added in that time. Doesn't look like its been polished or even waxed in at least that long. So far luckily this is working out as at least no irreparable harm was done. This is going to be a fun hobby for me; first round of maintenance is almost done on the main items already mentioned. Not surprising, will have about $16k in it, including everything even title & tax, and will have fun this summer, hope to meet some of you in traverse city!
The balance of info on this forum prepared me well for what to expect and how to proceed, thanks everyone!

[94SilverCab]

If your all in price comes out at $16k you got an absolute bargain.

Happy motoring !

Jay

[flash]

agreed. i'd be expecting another $3k in less than a year.

[MLB]

Yes, that could be, once I get into the clutch and variocam. For these items I plan to get help from a 951/968 mechanic.
Oh, and would like to add D1R DE brace(s), if there's ever another run made... :0)

Edited by MLB, 06 March 2013 - 07:36 AM.

[flash]

there will be a run of some of the products. i'm working on deciding when it will happen

[hot968]

MBL I agree if you r only up to $16,000. you have done good I am into for $28,000. so far and still need to have more work done ! Brought a car that was abused and neglected BUT is suppose to be the oldest coupe in US and I love the colors.

[rl968]

I'm not showing this to sell you my car, but this is my ad so you can see no much work I've done. I'm into the car about 14k more than I paid. It's now pretty much perfect mechanically.

http://cnj.craigslis...3651238954.html

[flash]

it can add up fast. i'm not speaking about your car, but the problem with most cars for sale is that what the seller thinks is "new" is really a couple of years old at minimum. we all tend to forget how long something has been on there. i just realized that my "new" seats are actually 7 years old. that means that often a lot of stuff needs to be replaced again, and that costs money.

by the way, your power steering tensioner is actually a Design 1 Racing item - lol