39 replies to this topic

[mbardeen]

I went to see the only 968 on the market in Chile today. It's a 1993 Midnight blue Cabriolet with 66000 miles.

The engine bay was filthy.

The state of the paint was dismal -- lots of chips, some dents (outies on the hood, innies elsewhere). One innie was near the cup of the headlight. The paint was cracking on the fender.

Inside, the bolster on the driver's side had the characteristic wear. The dash was fine, but the carpeting needed lots of work.

The quick PPI showed that the car was pretty clean, mechanically. The belts were changed recently, but they didn't change the rollers, tensioners, or water pump, so that needs to be done. The powersteering rack needs to be rebuilt. The oil seals were leaking (front and back), and there was play in the wheel bearings.

Everything else was in decent shape. No detailed service history is available, unfortunately.

Prices don't translate well, but the seller was asking 11.2 million chilean pesos, which is somewhere around $20000 USD. The mechanic that did the PPI said he wouldn't pay more than 7 million pesos ($12000 USD). As comparison, my 1995 Jeep Cherokee is worth about 3.5 million pesos. The car is probably the only 968 Cabriolet here in Chile... and I've only see 2 coupes.


I don't have a problem with doing the work myself, and I see this as a project car -- something that I will slowly bring back to her former state of glory. I can turn a wrench as well as anyone and I like buying tools...

So the now the question: If you were in my position, would you buy it?

[tamathumper]

The law of supply and demand applies there as well as here, so only you can answer that question.

[lbpesq]

One thing I would want to know before making that kind of decision is how much it would cost to ship a 968 from the US to Chile? Even $12,000 sounds like way too much for a car in the condition you describe. You can certainly do MUCH better up here if you're willing to spend in the $12-20K range.

Bill

[mbardeen]

Fair enough.. but let me rephrase the question:

If you had to put a lot of work and money into your 968 (mechanic suggested in the range of 5 million CLP if he did the work), would you?

One thing I would want to know before making that kind of decision is how much it would cost to ship a 968 from the US to Chile? Even $12,000 sounds like way too much for a car in the condition you describe. You can certainly do MUCH better up here if you're willing to spend in the $12-20K range.

Bill

That's not an option. Chilean law prohibits the import of used cars. Anything over a hundred miles qualifies as used.

[94SilverCab]

Sounds like too much.

Conventional wisdom indicates that a well sorted 968 takes about $20,000 (in the US), this would be a balanced combination of first cost against deferred maintenance (i.e. a $15,000 car would need $5,000 in work to make it "satisfactory). Your car is closer to $30,000, at which price (in the US) you could buy one in concourse condition.

Supply and demand will set the price, but this seems very far out of the range...

Good luck with your negotiations,

Jay

[DaveN]

Given the rarity of 968's in Chile you have a tough decision. I wouldn't pay more than 4 million Pesos for a car in that shape as your going to spend another 4 mill on body, paint and interior alone. It's too bad you don't have more competition to choose from down there as that car would be less than 1/2 the price in the US market.

[Scott Collins]

A car with all of those problems, which sound like neglect to me, may reveal itself to have many more that will quickly eat through gobs of Chilean pesos.

My never neglected and driven often 968 takes realistically $1,000-$2,000 per year to maintain if you average the past 3-4 years, in parts alone. It would be 4 times that if I had someone else do the work. But I feel like I'm getting to the point of replacing so many parts that there's a lot new in my 20 year old girl.

Best of luck, and very cool that there is only one 968 in Chile. That might just make it worth the price, and you would get to say that you have the only 968 in Chile! In any car show or concours, you are guaranteed to win, every time!

Wonder how it got there and what the entire story is. Fascinating....

Scott

[94SilverCab]

Check out my car, it's worth 20 Million (chilean Pesos)

Jay

[Darth Vadar]

How about other Porsches available in Chile? I just couldn't fathom spending that sort of money on something I would not even call a Track Car here in the USA...
No, wouldn't even consider it, even tho it is the only one...
And FWIW, if you want to do something in Chile, all it takes is money... if you get my drift!!! I suspect you could import the 968, AND pay off the necessary officials and come out ahead on the deal!

[mbardeen]

On further reflection, I'm wondering about the authenticity of the 66000 miles. I foolishly neglected to see if the odometer was working when I took it for a test drive -- I was more worried about the mechanics of driving and not crashing. I also, foolishly, neglected to take pictures. I even had my camera along .


The interior really struck me as having a lot of wear for that many miles. The bolster on the driver's side looks a lot like this: http://www.bakody.co...92Blue96810.jpg
The steering wheel and dash were in good condition. The carpet in the trunk had large wear spot on it.

Anyway.. I'm still debating on what constitutes a fair offer price for the condition of the car and its relative rarity (BTW Scott, it's probably the only 968 Cabriolet here. I know of at least another two 968 coupes.) My wife wants me to low ball the car at 4 million (which would buy a new Chevrolet Spark!?!?), but I think the car is realistically worth around the mechanic's estimate, 7 million, in this market... if does indeed have 66k miles on it.


I'm almost wondering if it wouldn't be better to buy a 968 in the US and just fly back on weekends to drive it. I think it might come out cheaper in the long run! Or if I should just drop the whole classic Porsche idea altogether and get myself a low mile RX8.

[mbardeen]

How about other Porsches available in Chile? I just couldn't fathom spending that sort of money on something I would not even call a Track Car here in the USA...

To give you an idea of the market:
A beater 1984 Porsche 944 has been on the market for 2.5 million (no takers on that one).
951s typically go for around 6 million.
A well sorted 1984 911 Carrera SC -- 22.5 million.
1983 Porsche 928 S -- 7 million.
1999 Boxster -- 15 million.

Edited by mbardeen, 21 December 2011 - 03:01 PM.

[robadams56]

I think you are on to something there. As wonderful as the 968 is, without good service records you could be facing millions (CLP) in repairs soon. That's if you can get the parts which are hard enough to come by anyway. My second thought was you might think about a good 944 since they are more plentiful. Or even a good older 911 SC or mid eighties Carrera.

And finally, yes, maybe the most economic idea is to go with an RX7 or RX8. The main thing is to get something that will put a smile on your face. I happen to think the last iteration of the RX7 would be a fun car to own and one that is easily maintained.

[mbardeen]

After much back and forth, I've got the guy down to $8.5 million pesos. That's still high for US standards, but given the market here I think it's reasonable.

A clean 1993 968 coupe with 57000 km sold for $13.9 million pesos a couple years ago. For $5.4 million ($9500 USD) I think I can correct most of the issues outstanding on the car.

So I guess I'll be joining the ranks of 968 owners soon!

[bombfactory]

Congrats! Post some pics when you can.

[Ceenit]

Congrats on the purchase and getting a more reasonable price on the car. Now the fun begins! Keep us posted on the progress of bringing your 968 up to it's original beauty!

[mbardeen]

Bad news..

The seller and I had agreed on a price and had settled on when to do the transfer -- supposedly last Friday.

Last Wednesday I found the car listed again in the local classifieds, for a price of 9.5 million Chilean pesos. I called on Wednesday to confirm the transfer on Friday, but didn't let him know that I had seen the ad. Of course, he said that due to time commitments that he couldn't meet on Friday.

I immediately withdrew my offer for the car. My suspicion was (and still is) that he is trying to generate interest from someone else to start a bidding war and that he would be conveniently busy until he had some other offer. As much as I would like to own a 968, I'm not willing to be played for a fool. And this just further cements the impression in my mind that something's not kosher with the car/seller.

So unless one of the other two Chilean 968s pops up for sale, I'll continue to remain 968-less for the immediate future.

Many thanks to all those that offered advice!
-Matt

[mbardeen]

So.. against my better judgement I took posession of the only 968 Cabriolet in Chile yesterday, for a price of 7.5 million CLP (or around $15K).

My pleasure of paying one million pesos less than I originally offered for it lasted about 2 hours, when it overheated. I pulled off to the side of the road and as I did so.. POP and lots of steam. Luckily, it looks like no damage was done.. there was no water in the oil and from visual inspection, it looks like a hose popped loose.

Regardless, I decided to call a tow truck to get it to my house.


Now to do triage and start figuring out what it needs to be put back in to shape.

[tamathumper]

Congratulations?

[94SilverCab]

Definitely a mixed blessing...keep us posted, don't even think about starting it up until you have changed Timing and Balance shaft belts. If you are doing those parts anyway, Water Pump does not neccesarily spit water on the ground when it fails, sometimes the impeller just spins.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Jay

[hot968]

Natt, much congrads on purchasing your 968. I know the feeling you had about being played by the seller as I had the same kind of experience trying to purchase an over priced 968 here in US> Glad it worked out for you and much good luck with it. Enjoy the ride