[SpeedRacer64]

The car carrier company delivering my car to RUF Automotive here in Dallas left the car in gear as they ramped up the flat bed to roll it off. The motor rolled backwards striping off what was left on the timing belt and smashed the intake valves...wtf right! So I ask all of you....who should pay?



LuKe

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[PorscheDude]

[quote name='SpeedRacer64' post='46719' date='Feb 1 2008, 10:28 AM']The car carrier company delivering my car to RUF Automotive here in Dallas left the car in gear as they ramped up the flat bed to roll it off. The motor rolled backwards striping off what was left on the timing belt and smashed the intake valves...wtf right! So I ask all of you....who should pay?



LuKe[/quote]

They should be responsible. The carrier should be insured for damages that occur. The hard part would be proving that's what happened.

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[rhudeboye]

Wasn't the car driven onto the carrier when it left, proving that is was operational? It was then left in their care and upon arrival the car was no longer in working order. As stated above, as a paid service they should be licensed and insured and cover the damages.



Are they actually telling you thats its not their fault? If so, whats their side of the story?

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[SpeedRacer64]

    [quote name='rhudeboye' post='46721' date='Feb 1 2008, 09:49 AM']Wasn't the car driven onto the carrier when it left, proving that is was operational? It was then left in their care and upon arrival the car was no longer in working order. As stated above, as a paid service they should be licensed and insured and cover the damages.



Are they actually telling you thats its not their fault? If so, whats their side of the story?[/quote]



I took close up pictures of the belt two days before it was towed showing cogs (be it small) still on the belt. The car was driven and parked to and from the location it was towed. The car was in the basement parking garage, we (the tow truck driver and I) pushed the car out to the opening from which he attached and pulled the car up on to the flat bed. The car was placed in gear and emergency brake applied. (Standard procedure) and the car secured by chain.



Hans called me from RUF auto and said there was No Way there was no valve damage as the belt for about 4 -6 inch was sheared clean....Our conversation went back and forth as I informed him it was impossible as I drove the car and parked the engine ran fine. I’ve built motors, I understand what’s going on here and this motor was not damaged at the point when I shut if off. As a matter of fact, the day I took the pictures was the first day in five months sense driving the car. It ran so good, I thought maybe I had missed something and was looking around to see if it was whatever. The battery was dead so the hood light was very low, grabbed my flashlight looking around and remember the inspection grommet by the distributer, hence the following pictures of the belt.



I went to the shop and stood there in amazement as Hans and I went back and forth. It just didn’t add up. The car belt was intact, the battery dead, the only way for that belt to be strip clean was from the tow truck driver not taking the car out of gear when he was rolling it off.



The claim is being processed.....

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[PorscheDude]

Best of luck, I feel your frustration.

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[Anchorman]

From what I will call the ethical/moral perspective, there's no doubt about "who should pay". It's a shame, though, that the legal answer is always more complicated by the facts. Obviously the story would be much simpler had the car been running at some point during the pre-tow time while the tow operator was there.



Despite, though, the answer to "who will pay" question, it's a shame that you have to deal with this added aggravation. Good luck settling the money and the mechanical issues.

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[RPM]

Ugh! Good luck with that.

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[968rz]

Do not pay! If you broke a TV in transit would you blame the customer?



They owe you for being dumb (parts and labor) and not their shop, " I cant trust yo to tow a car right; how can I trust you to get my car fixed now?"

Problem is they may say "it was like that b4 we got to it" so get some proof that it ran b4 they got it.

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[stevekat]

Is that a photo of the cam belt before or after the damage?

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[SpeedRacer64]

[quote name='stevekat' post='46742' date='Feb 1 2008, 06:24 PM']Is that a photo of the cam belt before or after the damage?[/quote]



Today I spoke with the mechanic who preformed the disassembly. The picture of the belt displays what’s barely left of a very worn, disenegrating belt. The caveat here is I drove the car and parked it. The picture of the belt is the motor at that moment in time. The same position when the car was loaded on the flat bed.



Now according to the mechanic, when took the covers off, that part of the belt was down at the crank. Three cylinders have bent intake valves with no cylinder pressure the fourth is fine. Now I ask you, if an engine was running and slipped the belt at that point, are just the intake valves damaged or does it take out the exhaust as well. Would it be normal with a running engine with a slipped belt to damage only intakes on 3 cylinders and not all 4?



My position is there was no valve damage, the car ran absolutely prefect. The damage occurred when the driver left the car in gear rolling it off the flat bed rotating the engine backwards stripping off what was left of the belt and damaging 3 just 3 sets of intake valves.



This is nutz....and I know I know but as sure as the sun will shine tomorrow there was nothing wrong with the motor at that point the belt was in the position in the photo.

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[stevekat]

This is probably not what you want to hear, but if that photo is of the belt before it went on the truck, it was already toast. You may have been fortunate not to wipe the valves when starting it to get it to the garage in the first place.



Barring special instructions, I do not think the shipper would know to use extra care in that regard. I hope you get some recovery, but from the looks of it, I do not see it as their fault. Cams are supposed to follow cranks when the belt is in serviceable condition.



If you provided instructions to keep the car out of gear at all times, and not to start the engine, as might have been prudent if one was aware of the belt wear, then you are in good shape.

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[wingers]

Yep I gp along with that.

One point to add with the belt in that condition is IMO the teeth could have stripped as the engine was shut down when you last drove it.

One teeth lets go and the rest is history.

Hope you have some better luck in the future.

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[SpeedRacer64]

[quote name='winger' post='46807' date='Feb 3 2008, 03:09 AM']Yep I gp along with that.

One point to add with the belt in that condition is IMO the teeth could have stripped as the engine was shut down when you last drove it.

One teeth lets go and the rest is history.

Hope you have some better luck in the future.[/quote]



Are just the intake valves damaged when the belt slips....why just the intakes on 1,2 and 3? 4 is fine and no exhaust....is this typical?

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[flash]

could just be that it did not rotate that far - count yourself lucky

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[RS Barn]

Don't ask me why, but I dissasembled with a broken timing belt tensioner and valve damage was worst at #1 and least at #4 . I could post a picture but it's sad

Pete

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[MATTS92]

[quote name='SpeedRacer64' post='46719' date='Feb 1 2008, 10:28 AM']The car carrier company delivering my car to RUF Automotive here in Dallas left the car in gear as they ramped up the flat bed to roll it off. The motor rolled backwards striping off what was left on the timing belt and smashed the intake valves...wtf right! So I ask all of you....who should pay?



LuKe[/quote]

SUE THEM <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[NeedPorscheSpeed]

Luke (Speedracer64),



Man, those pictures of your timing belt turned my stomach! I'm sorry for your misfortune. How did things turn out with the towing company and the repair job? I hope that things are looking up for you!

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[SpeedRacer64]

Well...after long-winded letters and many hours on the phone the whole thing was heading to court....not that there’s any doubt in my mind as to how/what/why....it’s just a matter of how I wish to spend my time...and really in the end “the whole big picture thing” I yes”ME” should have NEVER let the belts go that far...so shame on me!



The cylinder head is off and having all new valve guides, the bent valves of course replaced and a three-angle cut performed on the valves. It should be done sometime next week and all the work completed shortly after.



Funnie thing....I’ve had the car sit before for lengths of time and it never once bothered me...this time....very different.



Very excited to get it back on the road and hopefully meet up with some forum folks or PCA meets.



Interesting thing these belts...it’s what makes this incredible engine work and at the same time can be the Achilles of this great mechanical work of art.



Lucky am I to be an owner!



Be Well and Thanks!



LuKe

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[NeedPorscheSpeed]

Luke,



I love the passion that you have for your 968! Also, as a writer, I appreciated your statement, "at the same time, (the timing belt) can be the Achilles of this great mechanical work of art." Well-stated!



As I have not been around for a while until recently, I have a few questions for you: 1) When did you take ownership of your "new" machine? 2) How long had it been since the timing belt had been changed?



I know how you feel in regards to being away from your baby for a while... Today, I got my 1993 going for the first time since January 23rd. You won't believe the problem... fouled plugs! That's right... When I attempted to start the car in cold weather, the battery was not supplying enough juice to the coil. Eventually, all that cranking dumped so much fuel onto the spark plugs that it wouldn't crank--not even with a freshly charged battery! So, after recharging the battery (a second time) and getting a new set of plugs, all is well. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[SpeedRacer64]

I’ve been in and out of performance car since driving around in my Dad’s 1970 Shelby GT 500, which he gave me sometime in 1984 Yeah...AWESOME! Was very much into drag racing at that point in my life and sold for at that time a large sum of money to fund a worked over 1969 Pro Stock Camaro with a 60 over 427 dual 1050 cfm dominators. Car ran consistent 9.90 and would wheelie thru second gear...in a word...POWER!



And the typical story follows...got married...got divorced...somewhere in all of that lost it all!



No regrets...at least I had the opportunity.



The thing is I always thought I’d be a better course driver than dashing off in a straight line. One day I saw this awesome 924....I can’t even remember what year....bought it....the most fun I’ve ever had in a car...sold it and bought a new/better one...sold it and bought a 944...great car but it was an automatic...yeah...that lasted about 6 months and finally found a nice 944 that I drove for years. Work change and really needed a truck so sold it to keep the money rolling in. Then about 4 yrs ago things really turned around for me and I started searching around for another 944 and in research came across the 968....the hunt was on! Came across quite a few in central Florida...but none with under 50k miles or more, then two popped up, one in Arizona and one in North Florida. The Arizona car was on EBay, the other direct to the Owner. Arizona had 30k miles with a lot of mods, the one in North Florida 12K miles no mods. Went with the low miles and that was about 3 years ago. The belt went the distance and more, as it was the original (I was told it was just changed by PO). The car now has just under 38K miles and that was all in one year of driving to and from work with a 120 mile a day straight shot highway into the city of Orlando Florida from the coastal city of Melbourne. A great drive for this car, it made the commute no question about it!



I had some pictures up at one point of the car in the shop, on one of those drive in the early morning the highway was in repair and the transition of grade to a bridge was about 4”. In front of me a pickup truck and in front of him a tractor truck carrying gravel. Yep, the tractor hit the grade change in the road and the back gate opened up and sprayed the road in front of me about a ¼ tom of ¾ inch gravel. It completely peppered the whole front of the car. Three months later, I finally got it back, new fenders, hood, and mirrors.



It has and continues to be an interesting relation with the 68, but wouldn’t trade it for the world!



Wow that was winded...lol

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