[Dave]

I usually run 12 psi and pump it back up when it drops to 10 psi. I believe the Porsche factory manual says up to 20 psi, I would have to check. I worry about that little plastic reservoir.



Stick in the area of 10 psi or so and you can't go wrong.

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[flash]

the unit says not over 20 (haven't read anything from porsche) - i just followed the instructions on the side of the thing - i agree, 12 should be fine - i think i remember that's where dave did his too (or something awfully close)

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[Dave]

Shop manual says 1.5 bar, which I believe is about 21 psi? That seems a little high for my comfort level with 10+ year old plastic reservoirs.



Anyway, 12 psi is what I've used for 5 years and nothing's blown up yet <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Now, where the heck is my power steering leak coming from <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

wow!



i hadn't read the manual, and was going purely on the instructions on the side of the unit - 21 would exceed the unit's printed capabilities - surprising it is so highly recommended at that spec - clearly it works, and very well, but if you were shopping for tools, and the tool did not come up to the needed spec, and that was your determinate factor, you wouldn't buy it



bummer about the rack - that has to be annoying

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[Dave]

Yes, not quite sure where it's coming from. I just have not been in the mood to take it all apart. I'll have to carve out some time in the near future.

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[blue968]

HI Guys,

Just read this post and was wondering on the procedure on using this bleeder?
I ordered 1 and it just came in. I am going to replace the stock lines and clutch line with the stainless steel ones.
Should I suck out the old fluid from the reservoir and fill with new super blue and the Motive bottle and chase old fluid out?
Can somebody give me a procedure on doing this? It sounds like its pretty easy but I think there is going to be air between the motive line and reservoir and will need to be pushed out. Am I correct????

Thanks

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[flash]

there should be instructions with the motive that tell you to put fluid in the big bottle

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[blue968]

Yes, read that clearly. Do I wait until I get a big burst of air out of the right rear caliper? I got the bleeder with the 6' hose,which is going to put allot of air into the system.
Also when your all done there is going to be pressure in the line therefore the line and reservoir will be completely full. Is there a way to get the fluid back into the big bottle without making a mess?? Or do you have to unscrew the cap on the bottle and remove fluid with Turkey baster??

Thanks

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[flash]

it shouldn't put any air into the system - when you pump it up, it should suck fluid up and fill the tube

when you crack it loose again, the fluid returns to where it should (mostly) - i have had to suck a bit out of the reservoir before though

one of the reasons we change colors in the fluid is to know when the air has passed and new fluid is coming out

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[blue968]

Ok, Thanks
I plan on tackling this job over the weekend.
Will post results

Thanks

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[stevekat]

If the Motive Bleeder is one that pressurizes the master cylinder reservoir, I'd be very careful, unless factory says OK. Years ago on my 1988 U.S. M6, my shop used a pressurized bleeder, and proceeded to flood the inside floor of my car with maybe 3/4 of a gallon of brake fluid (or some other huge quantity) before they caught that something was going on. If the factory says OK, you are good, if not, take this as a cautionary tale. You can not imagine the mess. Had to pull the complete interior carpeting and replace with factory molded. I have not used a power bleeder on any car I have owned since then. I'll use vacuum on the caliper end, or foot power, but not pressure. After this happened I think the shop replaced my master cylinder, but it worked perfectly before this operation. If a system is not designed to have significant pressure through the reservoir, I can see the possibility of unexpected consequences. It is possible my shop over pressurized the system, or that my master cylinder was close to having a problem anyway, but I have been very cautious since then.

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[Scott Collins]

stevekat,

Sorry to hear about your experience. I've been using the Motive Power Bleeder for about 5 years or so. No problems at all. It never takes too much pressure to get that fluid moving through the system and calipers. If I recall, I never went above 20lbs while bleeding. Then I use a turkey baster to pull some out of the reservior since it tends to top it off.

It's now a one man job with this product. Besides this, I really don't know how I would bleed the clutch without it.

-Scott

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[flash]

agreed -

steve - it is likely that you hit the nail on the head and that the master was weak - the seals are only rated for a maximum life of 8 years (yes, most of them last longer than that), and depending on whether or not the system was contaminated, it could have gotten weak and just chose that moment to let go

the pedal applies a LOT more pressure than the motive can - the reason the pressure method failed was that as the seal moves, it created a fluid seal - you likely did not have full pedal pressure, but it was enough to do the job - there was likely fluid passing back and forth across the seal, but since it was coming back, the fluid never escaped the system, due to the pocket behind it - but when the seal was not moving, as is the case when using a pressure bleeder, it left a clear path for the fluid once that pocket was evacuated - this is actually pretty common with old seals (you should try owning an old british sports car sometime) - you can usually see signs of a weak seal in the form of "sweating" on the bellows at the pedal

i have never heard of any problem with the motive, and without exception, every shop i know that works on these cars uses that unit - i would think we would have heard of another problem by now

the problem with vacuum bleeders is that you have to constantly change the tube - otherwise, it hardens, and you don't get a good seal - it is much easier to create pressure than vacuum - also, when you have a pressure leak, you generally still have enough to do the job - when you have a vacuum leak, you're stuck

the pedal method can be difficult on ABS cars too - it's very easy to create micro bubbles, and sometimes you end up chasing them for quite a while - i know people who do it that way, and sometimes you have to, but i know it can also be a pain

hope that helps

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[williamoss]

As explained to me when I had my 924 in the 1980's brake fluid is HYDROSCOPIC which means it absorbs moisture just by being exposed to air. This is one reason a new can of fluid is sealed and is clear when you open it. After time it turns darker. Water and air both compresses easier than brake fluid which may contribute to a soft pedal.

When I used to flush my system with, if you could find 2 others to help you, by the old pump the brake pedal all the way to the floor, half way up and all the way to the floor etc etc, I would first drain the master cylinder by using a turkey baster with a long tube on it and suck out as much fluid as I could. Then I would fill it with brand new fluid. One person by the master cylinder to pour new fluid into the master cylinder as the level went down, another pumping the brake pedal, and me under the car. Going to the wheel the farthest point from the master cylinder I would put a clear plastic tube over the brake bleeding nut and insert the tube into a glass jar with about 1 inch of new fluid into it. I would open the nut. as the person pumped the pedal, I would see the dark colored fluid go into the tube and into the jar. When the pedal was all the way to the floor I would close the nut, the person would allow the pedal to come up half way up, I would open the nut witht he tube on it and the pedal would go to the floor agian, until there was only clear fluid in the tube I would close off the nut and go to the next wheel rear wheel. By keeping the end of the tube submerged under the 1 inch of fluid at the beginning the tube would not draw air up the tube.

It was before the Motive power bleeders existed but it worked.

The dark fluid in sealed brake lines was because the fluid had absorbed moisture over time and from the heat of the brakes. By flushing my system once a year I always had a hard brake pedal, no rust near the brake cylinders and pistons with great stopping brakes all the time. Brake fluid is cheap compared to the other alternative. Why take a chance with an opened can of fluid. No matter how tight you sealed the cap or what the temperature is in the garage it was opened and exposed to air and moisture. I only use new cans of brake fluid when I bleed my system.

William Moss
Tigard Oregon

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[az968]

It's time for me to buy a brake bleeder as I'm replacing the rotors and putting stainless steel brake lines on.  Debating about the proportioning valve, but that's another thread.

 

So which model do I buy? The Motive site shows:

0109 Black Label European Bleeder for Porsche.


 

Pelican lists this model plus


0100 European Power Bleeder Kit, with adapter 1100 for about $15 less. (red label)

 

Paragon has these two plus the Motive Power Bleeder, European and Import Kit 1100 and 1101 adapter (which would also work with my T-cars.) (also red label)

 

What model do most of you use?

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[MLB]

I bought the (basic?) version with the 'euro' adaptor for threaded reservoir cap, was about $65 a few years ago, as i recall.

As noted in my recent thread about brakes and new bias valve, there was still benefit in having a second person press the pedal, though, to clear a couple difficult bubbles.

YMMV, But the motive still makes the job easier.

(Jackstands and all 4 wheels off wouldve made it even much quicker...)

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