[stevekat]

I love 968 Forums. Wanted to comment about the new organization of the boards...I am usually pro-change and improvement, but after using the new forum structure believe the prior structure was superior. It was far easier and faster to use. There are a ton of sub-topics now, many that shall not get meaningful activity. Also, having to click down to a second level reduces activity - I am interested in a broad range of 968 info, but frankly was exhausted by the time I finished poking around. I do not think I am going to have the necessary endurance and stamina to go up and down levels and open all the outline categories. In general, in web structure design, one is better putting as much as possible on the root level, and only when it gets incredibly unwieldy, should there be consideration of creating a sub-level. I personally felt the prior org was great - it was a pleasure to use and did not seem too top heavy. Just an opinion.

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[RPM]

Do you use the "View New Posts" function?

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[94SilverCab]

Hi Steve,



Thank you for your input.



I think that you may find that using the "View New Posts" option is very helpful in navigating the site and we are currently working on enabling RSS Feeds to bring new information to your computer.



The organization of the site is an on-going exercise and we will continue to try to refine and improve it as time goes on, and we will be looking for constant feedback.



Regards,



Jay

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[flash]

i appreciate the input too - i wrested with this for a while - i was finding it incredibly difficult to find topic specific threads from 2 years ago - i was not so concerned with what was going on "right now" - the "view new posts" button takes care of that



you can get to the sub topics from the front page - click on the "grey" listing of the subtopic - the second page give descriptions of the subtopics, but you don't have to go there to get there



with as many threads as there are, failing to organize them like this would make this site as useless for research as sites like rennlist, where there is almost no way to sift through topics and find an old thread unless you knew exactly what it was



there is a LOT of information here, and creating an archive of it is crucial to people being able to find out what they want without having to ask the same questions over and over



that is exactly why libraries don't just throw all the books into one pile



we are always looking at ways to improve the site, and make it more user friendly - if we have not already come up with an idea, we will take this up at the next partner's meeting - thanks again for the input

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[xrad]

I agree with Stevekat....drilling down is cumbersome...and since my 'view new posts' and 'search' function seem to only work randomly(I only have problems with this site), I have to remeber where everything is.



I have kind of limited my posts and reading of posts to only a few areas because of this.



Other than that, site is GREAT!

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[flash]

if you already know the category you want, try using the grey links on the main page - they will take you right to the category, without having to go to an intermediate page

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[TheMirror]

After using the new format for several months now, I'm going to agree with the contingent that there are too many sub-topics in some of the sections.



My example is the REPAIR and TECHNICAL sections. In the Drivetrain section for example, the first 10 posts of each of the subsections stretch back into March. To me, that's simply not enough traffic to warrant 3 separate subsections. Just lump 'em together and we would still have a nicely specific section for Drivetrain.



Same goes for the Engine section, where the 1st page threads in the 3 subsections stretch back many months....even into 2007.



The rest of the layout is cool, I'm just of the firm opinion that the REPAIR and TECHNICAL sections need to be tightened up. Too segmented for the limited use they get.



Just my $.02

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[flash]

i appreciate the idea, and even agree to some degree that it is occasionally difficult to navigate - i will give it some serious thought, but i am looking toward the time when we have a topic for every part of the car - structuring the "filing system" now will make life much better later



as for "limited use" that is really just because i have not yet structured the threads into resource library format - ultimately they will be alphabetized by keyword, not ordered by date



i will try to figure out a system that will serve both



the idea is to set this up as a resource library as much as a chat board

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[pinball1008]

As a new member I obviously dont know what the "old" format was.

When I first joined I spent ages going through the different topics layer by layer but enjoyed the learning process. now I use the new posts button on a daily basis and this works fine for me. the grey sub topics also let me go direct to places I think I might find of interest.

Nothing is ever perfect, especially if you've gotten used to something and then it changes.

Overall, this site is great and I'm grateful to have such a comprehensive resource to use. I appreciate the work that goes into it and all the tips and tricks I'm picking up.

Keep up the great work.

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[gryphon]

Is it just me, or are the sponsor ads intended to take the right 50% of the screen?



Tom

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[banditsc]

[quote name='gryphon' post='52661' date='May 16 2008, 04:36 PM']Is it just me, or are the sponsor ads intended to take the right 50% of the screen?

Tom[/quote]



There is an issue with one of the graphics that is causing that. It should be fixed when the upgrade takes place.

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[TheMirror]

[quote name='flash' post='52615' date='May 15 2008, 04:01 PM']as for "limited use" that is really just because i have not yet structured the threads into resource library format - ultimately they will be alphabetized by keyword, not ordered by date



i will try to figure out a system that will serve both



the idea is to set this up as a resource library as much as a chat board[/quote]



Alrighty then, fair enough! I'll simply leave this comment for the partners to take note of for the next meeting.



As a veteran of many software engineering projects, recruiting for said projects and UI design etc.; just make sure any organization or design of the site is done to make sense to the vast array of users, not because it makes sense in the designer's head. I can't count how many times clients have complained about over-engineered solutions to simple problems.



The internet is the ultimate short attention span theater; any website design that requires users to either conform to or do excessive learning about its structure loses its effectiveness and users very quickly. If this site is going to see extensive organization in the future, just make certain that the internet's biggest dumbs*** could look at it and use it easily. Intuitive organization is the prize to shoot for.



The 968 community here is a technically savvy and devoted bunch, but be sure not to lean too hard on that.



Simplicity simplicity simplicity.



Oh yeah, and while the ultimate structure is being put together for eventual rollout, I still vote for tightening up the REPAIR and TECHNICAL sections. Low traffic pages of any kind are hard to take serious for new users. I know I personally pass on low traffic sites of other kinds, it makes me think its not worth the time searching for pertinent info or posting to get a response.



Best,



-Mirror

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[94SilverCab]

Mirror,



Obviously you have a tremendous amount of experience in website design/organization. Maybe we could all teleconference and pick your brain. This is a labor of love for us, but none of us are web professionals. We get by on help from friends, good will, and the particpation of regular users who are willing to add to the knowledge base.



My understanding of what Flash is trying to accomplish, is that in 25 years, when our cars are antiques and exceedingly rare and valuable, that we will be able to leave for our progeny a link to the past that allows them to understand why there are no stock airboxes left in the world, and why they all have extra holes...LOL. The trick is to build a structure that will allow for the amount of information that will accumulate over the next decade now, before it becomes too hard to manage later.



If you can lend a hand with an org chart, technical expertise, etc. we would surely be willing to listen.



This is OUR community..anyone who can make this better is a valuable asset.



Regards,



Jay

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[flash]

i understand the issue, but i am solid on the categories - i am working on them being easier to access though, but it won't happen until the next upgrade - a limiting factor is the size of the font on the page, and how much i can fit on one page - as an example, there is NO way to have everything for the engine in one category, and have it of any use to search - there must be several subcategories under each main category - how they are displayed is the decision to be made



to help explain the goals, one of the big things i am trying to accomplish is that i am basically trying to build an encyclopedia for the 968 - but, i refuse to accept the concept that if it can't be seen on the first page, it isn't worth doing - i am not interested in a "quick fix - thread of the day" website - there is already one of those out there - it is totally useless as a resource library though



one of the biggest problems is that we have WAY TOO MANY threads about the same thing - this is because too many people have forgotten how to go to the library - i will be merging those threads and sifting through them over time, so that the information somebody is looking for is actually easy to glean, but it takes time



what i want to see stopped is "will these wheels work?" or "my car is running hot" - those have been done to death, the information is already out there, and people need to use the search feature and read for themselves - i do not want this to become the useless burying of repetitive threads that the other site is - docents jumping in and directing people to the information they seek would help a lot



perhaps a key would help - something akin to dewey decimal or library of congress filing - i am not sure how it will shake out, but rest assured that ultimately it will be easy to look something up



another huge problem is the failure of many to connect with other members - part of this is due to enabling people to only see one thing, lurk, and/or remain apathetic, without interacting - a big problem in being able to keep a car supported is the direct connections between owners - it is only through those connections that we will be able to keep interest in the car alive, and stand any chance to have parts availability or support in the future



to that point, we'll always have the chat areas, event areas, and such, but i am working on those actually being more of a real chat area, and dividing it from the library - i am also trying to get a live chat room set up



until then, using the "view new posts" feature accomplishes the task of letting people see what is new - if somebody is only looking at specific forums for updates, they are missing out on a lot more



as to the "less used" sections, please realize that i have over 1500 threads still to sort out and move around to their appropriate areas - i have only hit about half of the threads so far - a couple hundred of those will end up in the "less used" areas - i just haven't gotten to it all yet- i focused on sorting some specific areas, and will get to the rest soon



also keep in mind that as the cars become older, every area will see more traffic and posting, as each part of the car begins to fail - these cars are old - it is already beginning to happen - to cite an example, just look at how many threads there are about clutch failure - 2-3 years ago, there were none



i am taking all of this to heart, and will always be making changes that work, but as somebody who was really trying to find specific solutions and information, the way it was did not function well - it was nearly impossible to find anything - now, it is fairly easy, but still getting buried far too often



admittedly, i need to spend more a LOT time sorting and refining - i have been a little busy lately, but i see more time becoming available in the next couple of weeks

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[TheMirror]

[quote name='94SilverCab' post='52702' date='May 17 2008, 06:10 AM']Mirror,



Obviously you have a tremendous amount of experience in website design/organization. Maybe we could all teleconference and pick your brain. This is a labor of love for us, but none of us are web professionals. We get by on help from friends, good will, and the particpation of regular users who are willing to add to the knowledge base.



My understanding of what Flash is trying to accomplish, is that in 25 years, when our cars are antiques and exceedingly rare and valuable, that we will be able to leave for our progeny a link to the past that allows them to understand why there are no stock airboxes left in the world, and why they all have extra holes...LOL. The trick is to build a structure that will allow for the amount of information that will accumulate over the next decade now, before it becomes too hard to manage later.



If you can lend a hand with an org chart, technical expertise, etc. we would surely be willing to listen.



This is OUR community..anyone who can make this better is a valuable asset.



Regards,



Jay[/quote]



Hi Jay -



I PM'd you, too big of a topic to type back and forth on.



Cheers,

-R

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[TheMirror]

[quote name='flash' post='52729' date='May 17 2008, 04:57 PM']one of the big things i am trying to accomplish is that i am basically trying to build an encyclopedia for the 968 - but, i refuse to accept the concept that if it can't be seen on the first page, it isn't worth doing[/quote]



I'm very much in favor for development of a 968 encyclopedia, its an outstanding concept that would DEFINITELY benefit owners. NSXprime has something like that in their FAQ pages, and although that site is written in a Jurassic era HTML format, its still a very well organized and effective information source:



http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/faq.htm





[quote name='flash' post='52729' date='May 17 2008, 04:57 PM']but, i refuse to accept the concept that if it can't be seen on the first page, it isn't worth doing[/quote]



Nor should you accept that concept; that wasn't what I was suggesting at all. We all know about that other site which is one endless, shapeless stream of information....its an absolute mess. I gave up trying to find info there years ago because sifting through it is nigh-on impossible. This site never has, and never will resemble that one, because they only have one giant catch-all forum: "968".



What I perhaps didn't state clearly enough is that with a highly specific, relatively low traffic BB site like this one, over-segmentation of topics runs a risk of turning off new or casual users. They will look at the low post counts on the first page of a topic and will often conclude that the site is a waste of time because it looks like there isn't much traffic on it....and they'll probably not get the answer they're looking for right now. Then they move on and likely won't come back, unless they google questions and the same board comes up with hits.



Whether we like it or not, there are a LOT of users out there like that, I'm like that myself when I'm researching a topic of casual interest and I only have one or two questions. I'll pass by the low traffic sites, and pose my questions on the high traffic boards because I have a much greater chance of getting a relevant answer quickly.



Its for that reason that the encyclopedia idea is such a good one, getting new users tons of info straight away in an easy to understand format. We already have a lot of passionate contributors here, what we need is to make sure we capture the new user effectively. This site does have one big advantage, and that is its one of only 2 968 specific websites (in English) that I know of. The other is www.porsche968uk.co.uk . That's a captive audience which is a huge advantage in keeping the community vibrant. I'd be wary of how much more traffic this site will engender in the long run though, as these cars are indeed old and have shown very little collector value to this stage. Many have over 100K miles and once they get tired, most get broken down and scrapped. Most of the quirky issues have already been identified (variocam, pinion bearing, control arms), although things like the clutch issue will pop up from time to time. With the amount of cars dropping off the road through time from an already rare model, this community does face somewhat of an uphill battle for survival.



Anyway, just stream of conciousness here, FWIW.



Cheers,

-Mirror

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[flash]

understood and appreciated



as probably the lamest user around, i don't pay attention to post counts at all - i never understood that anyway - what is on the front page is also of no consequence to me



i am likely also the laziest user - if i can't find it in 3 pages, i'm done looking - that is exactly why i set up the categorization - i know what i want to find - i do not want to sift through hundred of unrelated threads to get it - having things set up in chapters is essential to that process - i don't want to be looking though an "engine" category when what i want to find is engine management



certainly i will be looking at all of this over time, and refining things, but a "first sort" needed to happen



i had to start somewhere before the task became too daunting to ever get done

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[apex]

FWIW you've got my support for the encyclopedia idea - a 968 wikipedia sounds great! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



The point mirror made above about vast shapeless streams of information is right on - so I like the categories - or anything to help us find our way.



*Bad subject lines* are a common downfall of internet forums - we should all try harder to make the subject line meaningful and something that would yield useful search results.



So if I haven't said it already - hat's off to the hard-working 968.forums team. Your hard work is appreciated! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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