[porsche]

MJ was visionary.......

link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e1oVX7Z66o

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[flash]

mj was a freak - met him - knew his personal security - he should have been in jail a long time ago - it makes me crazy that that much money could buy the kind of snowjob pr it did

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[Johannvb]

I can't comment on his personal life. He could have been a pervert, or he was just weird and misunderstood. I don't know the details so I won't judge.

But I agree with Porsche...He has made a major contribution to the music. While I am not his biggest fan I put him up there with the Beatles and Elvis. Whenever an MJ song comes on the radio, I instinctively put it louder.

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[rhudeboye]

That kind of life, for your entire life, is bound to make a guy socially inept. He cant blend in with the masses as his experiences are so different. He needed security since the age of 5. He could never just walk his dog down the street, play bball with friends and make new ones, catch a movie, meet girls, no High school fights, family cook outs etc. Just tours, security and everyone around you kissing your AZZ and expecting great things from you. Thats gotta screw a guy up.


That said. That dude could dance and sing. I don't like much of the new stuff, I think he peaked at thriller. But he is amongst the greatest performers of all time.

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[rxter]

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

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[Johannvb]

His songs has also been covered by many bands recently. I love these

Smooth Criminal

Beat it

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[flash]

pop music is what it is because of the way people respond to things - i'm not going to try to change anybody's mind about how they feel about his music, because as long as they're emoting or thinking as a result, it has done its job - mj obviously accomplished that, and as such qualifies as an artist of note

that being said, working in the business, and running into all sorts, i see all kinds of behavior, but i make no room for that kind of sickness - certainly celebrity changes people, but i fail to understand how such allowances could be made by so many, when we would fry anyone else for such things

i think we put such people on pedestals too often, and let them get away with too much, just because they entertain us - he was a prime example - but that much money can buy you out of just about anything - however, toward the end, he was nearly bankrupt, due to the payoffs - one of the attorneys that was handling it had some pretty stunning stories, that if ever hit the public, would probably change what many think

as for the musical contribution, he was not as responsible for it as you might think - there was a lot of behind the scenes collaborative help going on - while he is listed as producer, it's pretty common in pop music for a half dozen people to be involved in how a song comes out, but for reasons of sales and marketing a particular producer or songwriter is listed - i've watched the process countless times, and even participated a number of times, but often not been credited, as is the case with most of the people working on a project

when i hear people talk about his dancing, i just cringe - yes, he came up with a couple of moves early on, but then he ran out of ideas - after that, the dancing in his videos and performances was repetitive and predictable - there are much more imaginative choreographers out there, and far better dancers - bob fosse did more for popular dance than mj ever did - you just don't know about it

as a singer, he seriously lacked range, but then people also like bob dylan, and he couldn't carry a tune in a bucket, so go figure

what he was was the first to step into the big production shows and videos - his production staff developed things that had never been done before - that will forever change how we do things and how we build shows - it is good news and bad - the production is truly amazing, and those who work on them get paid very well, but the costs have resulted in fewer tours, as most acts can't do the big stadium shows, because people just won't pay the ticket - the days of the big rock and roll festivals are over - no longer can a band go up and just play - they have to have giant video screens, big pyro, huge lighting grids, and all the bells and whistles - the level of expectation has exceeded what most acts can produce

there is no denying the influence he had, and his career has opened a lot of doors, but i think we need to take a bit more realistic look at who he was and what he did - fortunately time generally takes care of all of that, and the pendulum swings back to center

odd side note: why do we note the birthdays of presidents, but the deaths of musical artists?

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[Johannvb]

"as for the musical contribution, he was not as responsible for it as you might think" - Flash

Neither is bill gates for windows and larry Ellison for all the Oracle Database etc. The bigger something gets the more supporting staff you need. this is normal, but the main guy always gets the credit.

So what if he can't sing, it's not like he was trying his hand at Opera. John lennon could not sing either, in fact very few Pop artists can sing perfectly in tune.

I also don't find it strange that MJ never developed new "styles" of dancing. The way he danced was his signature just like adding a high pitched O O at the end of everything. When your hear or see it, you know it's MJ.

The same applies to legendary sports cars. Porsche developed a shape in 1948 and it is still in production. The Coke bottle hasn't changed in years. I don't see why you have to reinvent something when it is your trade mark

just my 2c

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[flash]

it's the difference between art and replication or mere product

as i said though, credit must be given for the revolutionary things he did - i just don't get why people weren't as bored with it as i became when it didn't continue to develop and change

but then i own every chicago album recorded, and they were all the same too

i was just having this conversation with my wife - if mj were starting out today and trying to compete with artists today, he would not likely fare well - the productions of artists like madonna, pink, and U2 put a real dent in the chances of anybody new - they are constantly doing new and innovative things, and challenging the perceptions of the audience

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[Johannvb]

Don't get me wrong, I also think he peaked in the 80s. The last album I liked was BAD. After that it was all downhill.

But you are right, in todays world it is very tought to become big. Not just in entertainment, but also in business.

I think Youtube is becoming the place if you want to get noticed. Post a song on there and if it becomes popular, you have the potential to make it.

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[flash]

yup - the industry has changed a lot

i think of mj like i think of the lamborghini countach - it was splashy and bold, and revolutionary in its day, but now even a hyundai can keep up with it

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[PorscheDude]

That freak of a ped is where he belongs. 6 foot under and hopefully dancing with the devil.

RIP Farrah Fawcett.
She really suffered her last few months.

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[Cloud9...68]

I'm kind of with Porschedude on this one. Obviously, I'm way of of step with popular opinion here, but all issues with his personal life aside, I always thought his music sucked. Even at his "peak." I think I'd rather listen to a vacuum cleaner than to Michael Jackson squeaking out some bubble-gum pop tune. Maybe it's my preference for rock over the motown sound. But I even like some of today's top 40 stuff better than anything MJ put out. All this adulation for the guy just leaves me shaking my head. But then, it's all a matter of personal taste, so to each, respectfully always, his own.

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[968Oz]

Looks to me that Jackson had prodigious natural talent as evidenced by the fact he was a childhood prodigy. Never struck me as very bright though, so I always assumed he had some smart people behind pulling his strings to concoct the "phenomenon" that was his success and public persona. This contrasts to people like Jagger, Bowie, Madonna, Bono etc who chart there own courses. In any case, never liked his stuff much and knowing what I do now about his predatory habits makes me even less inclined to listen to his work.

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[Kim]

"This contrasts to people like <b>Jagger</b>, Bowie, Madonna, Bono" - rock on Baby. This MJ is the real rocker.

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[Johannvb]

I just want to say that this has been a very interesting topic!

To be honest MJ is not on my top 40 list of artist either. But that does not take away the fact that he has made a big contribution to the music industry and I still like to hear his old tunes.

I never followed the court cases etc. Am I correct in assuming that this is comparable to the OJ case? He had enough money to "Buy" a verdict?

And then to stir the pot even more, wasn't priscilla a minor when Elvis met her? And if i.i.r.c Jerry Lee Lewis had the same issue with his wife. Maybe there is a trend here.

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[flash]

there is a bit of a difference between an adolescent teen that somebody marries and very young little boys that are stashed away in a mansion with nearly an amusement park in it and calling it neverland

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[Johannvb]

Just to be clear, I have children so molestation is a crime punishable by death in my opinion. But I am also a data analyst in my daily life and just looking at the facts I see a striking resemblance between MJ, Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis.

Priscilla was 14 years old when she met Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis's wife was 13 when they got married.

The boy that was involved in the case against MJ in 2005 was 13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson)
The boy that was involved in the case against MJ in 1993 was also 13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_child_...el_Jackson)

I know both Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis had permission to marry the girls, but that is just semantics. In my eyes they are all molesters.

PS: I am happy to stop this conversation if it is upsetting to anyone. Like I said, I am an analyst and I find this topic very interesting.

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[flash]

i'm not defending the other two, but it seems a bit different situation as it was a more traditional relationship (boy/girl and marriage), and not so uncommon in some areas in the south

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