[Cloud9...68]

As I've been posting (whining...) for some time, I'd like to switch from my current 18" staggered wheel set-up to a square 17 x 9", because there's a better choice of tires in that size, a square set-up is less complicated to buy tires for, and the tires tend to be a lot cheaper. The problem is that finding a single set of 17 x 9" Porsche wheels is very difficult, because all Porsches come with a staggered set-up, so I had all but given up the search. Then, I stumbled into this:



https://www.pca.org/classified-ad/302339



I can hardly believe my eyes - four turbo twist 17 x 9's, with a decent set of tires, no less. The problem is, you have to be a PCA member to reply to the ad, and I let my PCA membership lapse some time ago, and I have no idea how old the ad is, so I don't feel like joining, only to find the wheels were sold a year ago. So, if there's anyone here who is a PCA member, could you please do me a favor and contact the seller and ask them if the wheels are still available? If so, please get a phone number from him, and IM me with it. Thanks!

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[MLB]

PM sent

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[JWahlsten]

Cloud,



Did you get what you needed? Happy to help.



Joel

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[Rap]

Your not a PCA member. Oh good lord, hope Flash doesn't find out!!!! Are you sure? Despite differences of opinion, staggered works. Have you tried toyo r888 or r1r? I've noticed my speeds are up this year. Because of several changes I might have to attribute it to a combination of changes!

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[flash]

staggered setup or discussion of tires are moot points. he wants a square setup for the obvious advantages.



also, there is no reason this car needs larger stuff on the rear. a 50/50 car should have the same size at all 4 corners, if the car is set up right to begin with. however, most guys go about setting up the car based on a staggered setup, which puts them at a disadvantage from the get go.



if those guys go to a square setup, they will likely find they have to make some changes in their setup, but in the end it will work better. most importantly though, and the motivation for this, it will be less expensive to run, which means more seat time. basically a square setup should mean twice as many events in a year for the same dollar.

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[Cloud9...68]

A member here graciously got me the phone number of the guy selling the set of 17 x 9" wheels, but as luck would have it, someone else called just hours before me and apparently bought them. Such is life. But I have several leads on others, so hopefully I will have something soon.



Rap,



I agree that there's probably nothing fundamentally "wrong" with a staggered set-up, and obviously many people have had great success with it. But for where I'm at, making my car faster really isn't all that important, as I'm not racing this car competitively. My goal for the foreseeable future is simply to hone my track driving skills, till I'm at the point where I can hold the car at the limit of adhesion through any and all combinations of turns, maintain maximum speed through the corners, and tie the track together as one continuous unit, rather than treating it as a series of discrete sections. Getting there requires one primary component - seat time. And getting seat time requires only two things - time, and money. To maximize the latter, I need to keep my operating costs, which are dominated by tires, to a minimum.



The difference in operating cost between a staggered 18" set-up and a square 17" set-up is enormous. The tires cost 30 - 50% less, the availability is much better (I can get top-rated extreme performance summer tires like the BFG G-Force Rival that fits a 17 x 9" wheel perfectly, for just over $150 apiece with the rebate going on now, but the only tires that come in the sizes I want on a staggered 18" set-up average close to $300 a pop - no can do), and will last much longer since I will be able to rotate them front to back. Basically, a square 17" set-up will cut my tire expenses by close to 1/2 to 2/3, which translates directly into more seat time.



Toyo R888's aren't an option, because I need to drive the car to and from the track, and these tires just aren't really very good for the street. Also, they have a UTQG wear rating of 80, vs. the BFG's 200, and they cost well over $100 more per tire. The R1R's are intriguing, but again in the 17" size, as they come in an ultra-low profile 245/35-17, which would give me significantly higher revs everywhere due to the effective lowering of the final drive ratio due to their small diameter. Definitely on my list to try at some point, but they have a reputation for wearing fast, and they cost significantly more than the BFG Rivals. But again, in 18", they're quite a bit more than they are in 17".



So, I see nothing but upside in switching to a square set-up. Even the question of which set-up is faster isn't a slam-dunk. I really don't understand why a modestly powerful car with a 50/50 weight distribution (basically a scaled-up Miata) would benefit from having wider tires in the rear, when the fronts are doing so much more of the work under braking and in cornering. I would think moving up from 8.5" to 9" in front would actually be a potentially faster way to go. Losing an inch of width in the back (in exchange for less weight, and potentially a lower overall diameter) seems like a non-issue in a normally aspirated car like mine.



But anyway you look at it, this is fun stuff, and I look forward to experimenting with different tires, and ultimately suspension settings, once I get to where I can tell the difference from one to another.

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[flash]

your tire expenses wil be cut even further by having the ability to rotate them, which, in addition to purchase benefit, is why i said you would get twice as much seat time for the dollar.



further, these cars don't need all that much grip in the rear, compared to the front. going to a square 9" setup should be faster than an 8/10 setup.

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[Cloud9...68]

I hear an echo in here, lol.



Seriously, thanks, Flash, for recommending this.

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[flash]

lol - oops - missed that. my bad. only on the first cup.

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[Rap]

I agree speed is not as important now for us as is the continued skill progression. I'm not sure why my speed is up and just mentioned it as an aside. The corners are way different and that is a big deal to me. You are 100% right on cost and I am struggling with it myself. Having some fun now but suspect I might have to change my set up if I continue with 12+ events a year.

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[94SilverCab]

[quote name='Rap' timestamp='1404787781' post='159765']

Your(sic) not a PCA member. Oh good lord, hope Flash doesn't find out!!!! Are you sure?

[/quote]



Neither of us are PCA members anymore, I'd rather buy $42 worth of "fertilizer".



Jay

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[Cloud9...68]

Rap,



Now wait a minute - I was counting on you as a potential buyer for my slightly-used set of 18" Enkei staggered wheels - think of how great they'd be for a spare set of tires, lol.

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