300 HP NA - Printable Version
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300 HP NA - RS Barn - 10-20-2010
Hi guys. I started to build a 300 HP NA motor 3 years ago. I thought there would be a market in NASA racing in the GTS3 class. The HP matches up with typical lightweight 968 tub 2650lb to be at the top of the class. There are lots of BMW shops that make high HP E36 motors.
Goal was to use stock ignition and keep wet sump to keep cost down. Also by limiting power to 300 or so at 7k, reliability wouldn't be an issue.
My engine builder has run these at 335 HP@8k for over 100 race hours. BTW stock lifters and valve springs are used.
The engine has steel sleves, custom lightweight pistons 12.6:1 compression, special 2 piece cams with adjustable sprockets, Carillo Rods, cross drilled crank.
My total cost was close to 15K. When you start adding up all bearings,seals, belts, oil pump and all the stuff needed to build a fresh race motor, it adds up in a hurry.
Knowing the stock intake manifold was the limitation for more power over 6500 rpm was a problem. I had a custom log manifold made by Lance at Hayward in Vancouver.
We set up on SuperFlow engine dyno and broke in rings and bearings with sustained rpm tests. Breakin mineral oil was drained and racing oil with ZDDP was added.
First we tested with log manifold and large TB. As we tuned power kept climbing. We tuned 1000rpm at a time and worked our way up to 7k. Then we hit a wall. Engine wanted to keep going but rev limiter was kicking in. We tried several ways to raise rev limit or eliminate completely without success. best HP at 7300 was 317 . I was hoping for 335 at 7500. I wanted to put rev limit there. First day on dyno done $800 set-up $800 tuner and $800 dyno time.
Second day we didn't have any better results with log manifold so we put stock manifold back on and tried that...
Wow, we lost 15hp up top and added 25-30 from 4500 to 6300. Actually a good trade. A motor that makes 300HP at 6300. It will run forever.
After engine, manifold and testing I have close to 20K invested. Yikes!!!
There is more to be had by playing some more with Log manifold or possibly modifying stock manifold .
Pete
300 HP NA - Eric_K - 10-20-2010
Nice job. 20k doesn't sound too outlandish for developing a Porsche race motor, especially if you can use what you've learned on mulitple future engines.
300 HP NA - flash - 10-20-2010
i agree - $20k is actually pretty reasonable for the relative increase in normally aspirated power
300 HP NA - Johannvb - 10-20-2010
Am I correct in assuming this is not a streetable engine?
300 HP NA - RS Barn - 10-20-2010
It could be used on the street with 104 Octane and some different tuning!!! Joking...
With the stock manifold and propper exhaust it idles and makes 60 per horses than stock from 2k to 6500
Just have an extra battery to crank high compression
300 HP NA - pmcrespo - 10-20-2010
Object of desire indeed.... we need some track testing !!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]
300 HP NA - benspeeder - 10-21-2010
I volunteer my car :-)
300 HP NA - Johannvb - 10-21-2010
I'm happy to test it for street use [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]
300 HP NA - pmcrespo - 10-21-2010
Since Ben is just volunteering the car... I'll drive it then! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
300 HP NA - pmcrespo - 10-21-2010
So back to the awesome subject of the thread...
If you had interest from potential pre-paying customers, a complete engine (minus standard accessories/components) will likely be marketed for how much? Lets day on a 4 engine run?
Will cooling be an issue or will modified radiator and pump system be necessary?
300 HP NA - 333pg333 - 10-22-2010
Nice results Pete! Interesting on the differences with the manifolds. How do you think this would translate across to a turbo version of the motor? Again it would seem that the stock manifolds of both the 951 and 968 are geared to mid range (which they should be).
What manifold are you going to keep? Also it would be interesting to see what you could come up with using a standalone ECU?
300 HP NA - duke - 10-24-2010
Great results. Now make an ITB intake manifold and add a standalone ECU with full control. I bet you will add a bunch of power!
Tweaking the variocam can also improve the curve a lot.
300 HP NA - RS Barn - 10-26-2010
I still think there is potential for my "Big" manifold. We just didn't have a selection of throttle bodies during testing. It was a stupid mistake. The tuner (not mine) also had problems eleiminating rev limit.
I'm going to test some mods to Stock 968 manifold to see if there is flexibility there.
We did modify the vario and have unique "Cam Timing"
I don't think "Production Run" would lower costs much. Yop still need tons of $ new parts and tons of $ machine work.
Everyone thinks Big Manifold bery nice for Turbo Charging
300 HP NA - benspeeder - 10-26-2010
So - how much will it cost me to 'rent that engine' for next season??? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
300 HP NA - RS Barn - 10-26-2010
I'd rent it for 5K a race. That sounds good to me!!!
300 HP NA - benspeeder - 10-27-2010
LOL - awwww - no special price? I'll share a 100% of the winnings with you!
300 HP NA - savvas968 - 12-26-2010
Perhaps this has been a topic earlier ,but as i am new to this forum,i am wondering if anyone has or had any experience with the WEB CAM
uprated camshafts for the 968 ,which are on offer for use with the hydraulic std cam followers.?Just dont seem to find much about them
although quite a few are in use with the 951 turbo engines with good comments.
300 HP NA - flash - 12-26-2010
pete at rs barn knows about the webcams
300 HP NA - savvas968 - 01-03-2011
THANKS BOB,
WILL SEND HIM AN EMAIL
300 HP NA - flash - 01-03-2011
no worries - because you were inquiring regarding the SC, be aware that no other mods will work in conjunction with the SC kit - it is tuned specifically for the stock setup - you cannot use the cams or anything else like that and bolt up the SC and expect it to work