Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - Printable Version
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+---- Thread: Anyone running aftermarket ignition? (/anyone-running-aftermarket-ignition.html)
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - shelby987 - 04-20-2012
In particular I am wondering if anyone is running the vitesse racing wasted spark or more simply, an EDIS-4 wasted spark system on their 968?
I am wondering if I can get rid of the distributor all together and put the funds I would have to put into new toothed gear covers into a stand alone ignition system. I have found videos of people running the EDIS-4 system (fords ignition system that used a 36-1 reluctor wheel to properly phase the system). I am trying to find a good reason that this wouldn't work on our cars, but it seems like it should be pretty easy since it is basically a static timing engine anyway. I am thinking as long as the wheel is installed on the intake cam, then the vario-cam adjustments will still be captured by the system and spark will be delivered accordingly.
Thoughts?
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - Cloud9...68 - 04-21-2012
I haven't heard of anyone doing this to one of these cars, but that doesn't mean nobody has. Out of curiosity, what do you hope to gain from this? I can see how not having a distributor will give more consistent performance over time, since you won't have a rotor and cap to worry about wearing, but other than that, what do you hope this will buy you?
Personally, I'm waiting for someone to come up with an aftermarket direct fuel injection system. Now that would be cool - it would allow a turbo conversion that retains a high compression ratio. I'm sure somebody is working on it...
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - MB968 - 04-21-2012
This car has all the things you need to run an aftermarket ECU and thus probably just the coilpack part. I'm familiar with Electromotives products, as I run a TecGT on my boosted Mazda. When I ran into the infamous corroded part at the distributor cap, I considered just switching over to the TecGT. The 968 already had a 60-2 tooth wheel, and a cam position hall effect sensor. You don't need much more than that and to tap into other sensors already on the engine.
If you are planning to boost the engine, I could recommend the TecGT, although a bit pricy at about $2k. Maybe able to get a used one for a bit less off someone's race car.
Check out their web site for more info.
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - vliegwielolaf1234 - 04-21-2012
at the 928motorsports site there are some pic's with a 968 with aftermarkt ignition .
No clue on what it is
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - shelby987 - 04-21-2012
Mb968 hit it on the head, corroded distributor front and rear covers....with a price tag of over $1,000 for the set, plus having to redo the timing belt that was just done, a distributorless ignition sounded like something That might cost about the same, and get me back on the road without worry of dist or cover issues.
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - tamathumper - 04-21-2012
IIRC the cost of the shells is more than $1,000 for just one of them?
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - shelby987 - 04-21-2012
Sunset can get all the parts for $1,000.....but there is also a 3-5 week lead time!
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - WJH - 04-21-2012
[quote name='shelby987' timestamp='1335022703' post='125819']
Sunset can get all the parts for $1,000.....but there is also a 3-5 week lead time!
[/quote]
Isn't that just nuts. Let me see..... build a piece of crap housing.....wait for it to fall apart......charge people $1,000 to replace a part that should last the life of the car. These are the things about Porsche that frustrates me. I wanted to buy a new OPRV for an earlier 944 - $400. That's not going to happen either. This ignition idea sounds intriguing.
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - Cloud9...68 - 04-21-2012
So other than eliminating the need for a distributor and it's troublesome housing, and the reliability of not having to worry about plug wires, distributor cap, and rotors aging and wearing, are there any actual performance benefits to a distributorless ignition system? All the OEMs have switched to them, so there must be some advantage; just curious as to what might be expected on these cars, if anything.
In any event, this is definitely an interesting thread. I'll be watching this space, if only out of curiosity.
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - MB968 - 04-22-2012
You still need plug wires, but they go direct from the coil pack to the plug. No loss of performance due to rotor or cap conditions. In addition the claim is for a longer duration spark, with more energy. Not sure how much this would mean to our engine.
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - flash - 04-22-2012
i can't think that a much longer spark would be a good thing with the amount of cam overlap we have
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - MB968 - 04-22-2012
You'd have to talk to Electromotive about that. Their market is mainly for the race circuit who should have a lot of overlap. Their market is a lot smaller in the individual market as not many people are willing to plunk down ~$2500, which is probably what I have in the TecGT, with some added wiring circuits and sensors.
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - flash - 04-22-2012
i guess the question is whether or not you want more low end torque or more upper end horsepower. our intake manifold makes things complicated. the variocam even more so.
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - MB968 - 04-23-2012
As long as you run the electronic ignition in parallel with the factory computer the variable resonance induction system, and the variocam will still function. Most people use the systems that way so as not to loose a lot of other fuctions handled by the factory computer.
If you go with a full blown ECU, you can also run it in parallel. And probably thanks to Hondas (am I allowed to use that word here), the ECU's have a lot of I/O features to drive the likes of variocam. So there would also be no loss of funtions on the engine with the standalone either. On my Mazda I chose to run the TecGT in parallel so I didn't have to wire in the variable resonance induction system. The OEM computer continues to operate the two butterflies that run the three way system.
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - flash - 04-23-2012
i was referring to a longer spark and overlap
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - MB968 - 04-23-2012
[quote name='shelby987' timestamp='1334972361' post='125784']
In particular I am wondering if anyone is running the vitesse racing wasted spark or more simply, an EDIS-4 wasted spark system on their 968?
I am wondering if I can get rid of the distributor all together and put the funds I would have to put into new toothed gear covers into a stand alone ignition system. I have found videos of people running the EDIS-4 system (fords ignition system that used a 36-1 reluctor wheel to properly phase the system). I am trying to find a good reason that this wouldn't work on our cars, but it seems like it should be pretty easy since it is basically a static timing engine anyway. I am thinking as long as the wheel is installed on the intake cam, then the vario-cam adjustments will still be captured by the system and spark will be delivered accordingly.
Thoughts?
[/quote]
From what I can find on the Probe/Mazda forum, looks like the EDIS system would need something like a Megasquirt to drive it. The only other issue is the 36-1 tooth wheel. I installed, after designing and manufacturing the parts, a 60-2 tooth wheel on my Mazda. It can be a bit tricky to accomplish unless you have access to a machine shop. OD runout is a big issue as it creates a low frequency sinewave that the higher frequency (from the 60-2 tooth wheel) rides on. By the time you add the extras needed to drive the EDIS, you might find it easier/cheaper to purchase a complete coilpack ignition system from one of the suppliers whose system will work with the 60-2 tooth wheel already installed on the 968.
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - flash - 04-23-2012
i think this is all academic
relative to what else is out there, i think this is a huge waste of money for any amount of gain you'd get. the motronic is capable enough for almost any setup, and it can be reprogrammed to suit your needs. the coil is plenty hot. i don't see any gains to be had with a stand alone, unless you were going to try to map a very involved high boost forced induction system
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - MB968 - 04-23-2012
Flash, I don't think any of us were trying to gain any performance, and I agree, there probably isn't any to speak of. As Shelby's note below states, this was about possible alternatives to the corroded part issue. When I purchased my part there were only two or three left in inventory. An aftermarket is another way to go. Hopefully someone will also step up and start producing the part which would give us two choices.
[quote name='shelby987' timestamp='1335018084' post='125814']
Mb968 hit it on the head, corroded distributor front and rear covers....with a price tag of over $1,000 for the set, plus having to redo the timing belt that was just done, a distributorless ignition sounded like something That might cost about the same, and get me back on the road without worry of dist or cover issues.
[/quote]
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - flash - 04-23-2012
ah - got it
there was a start of such a project, but it fell down when access to the facility ceased.
i'm not sure it's a big of a problem as some others are experiencing. i have yet to see one of these myself that is so out of whack that it could not be repaired. the worst i've seen is one stripped hole. i wish somebody would post a pic of what is wrong. out here on the west coast, we don't get the corrosion i am hearing about.
with as many cars out there, i would think a junk yard would be a good source for relatively little cash.
Anyone running aftermarket ignition? - MB968 - 04-23-2012
I'll take a pic of mine when I get it out. One of the bosses is so far gone that the helicoil was just floating in the corroded hole. I didn't see a good way to repair that I could have any confidence in.