Clutch Master Woes - Need advise

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Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - Dano - 10-14-2007

Ok, so I'm fairly new to the 968. Just purchased my first one about 3 months ago and am in the process of going through a replacing hoses and the like.

My car has been suffering the clutch pedal to the floor symptoms, so I ordered a new clutch master, slave, high pressure hose, and low pressure hose.

Here comes the bad part... I just removed the old clutch master last night to find the input shaft is completely different. Short at least an inch. (see attached picture) I'm referring to the shaft, or plunger, that the threaded end goes into the clevis part. Assuming you can see the picture the stop nut, that's attached to the shaft, is the correct length but the threaded portion towards the clevis is definitely shorter that the old one is by at least one inch.

The parts were all ordered from AutohausAZ, seem to be the correct part numbers, even the casting number on the side is the same on both units.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Kinda desperate here.

TIA

-Dan

1992 968 Cab, Midnight Blue, 6 speed, no mods (yet)

[Image: ClutchMaster1.jpg]

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - flash - 10-14-2007

can't see the pic

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - bob blackwell - 10-14-2007

Dan, it sounds as if you have both parts off of the car. If so, I would take them both to the place where I bought the new part and ask them to make it right (give you the correct part). good luck, Bob Blackwell.

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - Dano - 10-14-2007

In case people can't see the picture...

http://www.restoremyride.com/temp/Porsche9...utchMaster1.jpg

and a couple more

http://www.restoremyride.com/temp/Porsche9...utchMaster2.jpg

http://www.restoremyride.com/temp/Porsche9...utchMaster3.jpg

[quote name='flash' post='42336' date='Oct 14 2007, 02:12 PM']can't see the pic[/quote]

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - flash - 10-14-2007

the one on top looks like the right one

when i designed the stainless hose for this, i checked, and there was only one part number for all 968 years

looks like you got an incorrect part

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - Paul David Anthony - 10-14-2007

I had the same thing happen to me today. My clutch pedal went all the way to the floor and just stayed there! Luckily I was able to get the car home.

Is this the symptom of the slave cylinder? Also, anyone have an idea of how much the repair will cost and if it is a DIY job?

Any help would be great.

Thanks

Paul

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - Dano - 10-15-2007

I spent roughly spent about $250 total, for the four pieces; master, slave, high pressure line, and low pressure hose.

So far, it's been a pain in the ass to get this far, just taking the old master out. I'm dreading trying to separate the high pressure line from the steel line. No room to work and 15 years old.

I don't know about this car for sure, but as other posts have said and past experience; replace everything now otherwise your just waiting for repairs very soon and probably very inconveniently.

For me it's no problem as a DIY, it just sucks that it appears I have the wrong part and will have to wait (which I'm not accustom too) for the right part... hehehe!

-Dan

[quote name='Paul Anthony' post='42343' date='Oct 14 2007, 06:55 PM']I had the same thing happen to me today. My clutch pedal went all the way to the floor and just stayed there! Luckily I was able to get the car home.

Is this the symptom of the slave cylinder? Also, anyone have an idea of how much the repair will cost and if it is a DIY job?

Any help would be great.

Thanks

Paul[/quote]

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - 968workaholic - 10-15-2007

Did you try pulling on the threaded portion? There is a slight chance that it got stuck and isn't extending all the way out.

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - Eric_K - 10-15-2007

IIRC, I also got a stubby master cylinder the last time I ordered a new one. I sent a picture just like yours to Paragon and returned it. They figured it out and sent me the right one.

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - Paul David Anthony - 10-15-2007

I could try "pulling on the threaded portion" but I am not sure where the master cylinder even is. I assume it is in or around the firewall someplace behind the pedal. It cant be accesible from the inside of the car could it be?

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - 968workaholic - 10-15-2007

[quote name='Paul Anthony' post='42355' date='Oct 15 2007, 11:51 AM']I could try "pulling on the threaded portion" but I am not sure where the master cylinder even is. I assume it is in or around the firewall someplace behind the pedal. It cant be accesible from the inside of the car could it be?[/quote]

It is to the lower right of the brake booster is you are standing in front of the car. Just follow the blue hose and you will find it. Paul, did you notice any fluid loss when your pedal went to the floor or not? You can grab the pedal and pull it off of the floor if it stays there, but it will most likely go back down when you depress it again.

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - Tom in Austin - 10-15-2007

The 944 slave has a shorter pushrod due to it not having a DMF flywheel. I actually have one of these that I got my mistake when looking to replace the slave on my 968 ...

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - Paul David Anthony - 10-15-2007

968workaholic...

I did not notice any fluid loss but I did hear a "squishing" type sound when I pressed on the pedal. What you described is exactly what happened...the pedal was all the way to the floor; I pulled it back into the up position and it stayed there but when I pressed on it again, it just stuck on the floor.

I am arranging to have the car towed to my mechanic. This might be a little to much for me to do on my own.

Oh yeah...does anyone know what the difference is between the clutch slave cylinder and the clutch master cylinder?

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - flash - 10-15-2007

yeah

about a half hour of grunting while upside down under the dash and swearing at the germans

ba dum bum

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - bob blackwell - 10-15-2007

The master cylinder is the big one on the firewall, the slave cylinder is the small one down by the clutch/bellhousing. You can see the master cylinder by looking under the hood. You can see the slave cylinder by looking under the car. Good luck, Bob Blackwell.

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - Dano - 10-16-2007

Well, I ended up calling the local Porsche dealer here in Phoenix and they're getting me one tomorrow. AutohausAZ didn't have anymore in stock nor their suppliers. So being that I'm impatient to drive my new 968, in the finally cool weather driving conditions here, I will see what Porsche ends up with tomorrow.

Thanks for the tips!

-Dan

1992 968 Cab, 6sp, Midnight Blue, no mods (yet)

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - Allen1322 - 10-16-2007

I just completed this job as well. I needed new tires and decided to do some preventative maintenance while it was on jackstands. I ended up w/ all new brakes w/ SS lines, new clutch master, SS line, and slave cylinder. Oh, and I went ahead and did fuel filter, oil change, PS reservoir and supply hose. Don't you love the "while I'm in there" complex?

Here is what I learned about the clutch stuff.

-Take out the drivers seat so you can get yourself properly wedged under the dash. Once under there I had no problem getting the clip off (or back on) to release the master cylinder input shaft.

-remove as much of the vacuum/electrical stuff in front of the Master cylinder to get more room for your hands.

-If you don't drain the reservoir before starting, clamp off the blue hose so fluid doesn't leak everywhere.

-The slave cylinder is very easy once you remove the starter.

As for bleeding when it's all hooked up, I had luck w/ the following:

-top off reservoir and hook up Motive Power bleeder

-lower the front of the car and leave the rear jacked up. This helps keep more fluid going to the clutch supply line so you don't suck in air. It also makes the bleed valve the highest point on the slave cylinder to direct air up to the bleed valve.

-press clutch pedal to the floor (it should stay down for now)

-pressurize the Motive

-crawl under and bleed the system until all air bubbles are out.

-now bring the clutch pedal up and it should be done.

-top off reservoir

This is what worked for me.

I would say that it is worth doing yourself if you can. It's kind of a pain in the ass but is not that difficult and the parts are pretty cheap.

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - Dano - 10-16-2007

Allen1322:

First off, thanks for the tips!

1) I've tried to move the wiring and hoses by the booster but even with the zip ties removed I can't move the wires and hoses more than about an inch or two in any direction. How far back did you have to cut the zip ties? I did about a foot's worth from the driverside corner in each direction.

2) Where are you folks getting the SS brake lines from? And roughly how much?

3) Is it easier to get to the high pressure (rubber) clutch line from the top or the bottom of the car?

4) Anyone know of a, local and in stock, supplier of the Motive power bleeder in Phoenix?

TIA!

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - flash - 10-16-2007

ss brake lines from paragon

ss clutch line from rs barn

lower connection of high pressure line from bottom

no idea about the local source of motive bleeder, but paragon carries that too

Clutch Master Woes - Need advise - Dano - 10-16-2007

Muchas gracias for the info Flash!

Quick update; I stopped by the Porsche dealer today who received the correct part in. We compared the, now three, clutch masters and he knew immediately that the master I received from AutohausAZ was the incorrect one. Probably due to someone boxing the wrong part to begin with as the part numbers on the box all matched but the master was definitely incorrect. He said that was for the 944 without a DMF (what "Tom in Austin" said in a previous post).

So, looks like I get to finish working on this bugger tonight. Or at least attempt it. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

FYI: Jaime (at the parts counter) at the Scottsdale Porsche dealership (480.538.3800) was a super friendly and helpful guy. Plus to boot they gave me the club discount (~10% off parts) even though I'm not a member yet. So final cost to me was $101 and some change. Not bad considering it cost me $90 for the wrong part online and a weeks worth of time.

Thanks again all!

I have more questions but I'll post those as they come.