Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - Printable Version
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Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - Eric_Oz_S2 - 09-20-2011
Wow - that was a fast change of mind.
$500 for a bracket is cheap too, less than I paid for my bracket. You may as well add an intercooler now and bigger injectors, more boost, lower compression.......
I don't see what the issue is with running in open loop, provided the cat is replaced with a straight through. I'm actually thinking about this approach myself. I can't see that you would get enough fuel wash to make that much difference. Of course it would be no good where emissions testing is required. I can understand your hesitation to market such a kit, as I would probably take a similar view. Doing it myself, I only have one person to blame if it goes wrong.
Alternatively to running OL all the time, I may hook up a switch to the coding plug to run open loop on the track with the supercharger, and closed loop off track. This may be useful in some part throttle sections of the track where it would otherwise run closed loop and also allow me to run two PT and <acronym title='wide open throttle'>WOT</acronym> fuel and timing maps.
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - flash - 09-20-2011
there have been a few people who wanted this, but i just didn't want to get into it. it dawned on me how to handle it though, and i think i can work it out easily enough. i'll still have to find a guinea pig to make sure i nailed the programming, but i did some quick math on the AC compressor drag and what that would do to the mix when it went away, and i think i can nail the programming pretty darned close from here. still, it won't happen until i see 5 people line up for this. the development cost for the machining of the billet part is what determines that.
as for a bigger kit, the engine can't sustain much more boost. that one is pretty moot. max boost on the unit with this MAF and intake manifold is 7lbs. the intercooler is not needed at the current boost level, and only barely at 7lbs. due to the way the kit is designed and constructed, i am only seeing about 15 degrees C increase in intake temps at the current boost levels, and would likely only see about 30 with 7lbs. the OEM injectors can't make that much boost safely though, and bigger ones are required. i've played with those, and there is another programming problem that makes their use problematic. they cause the engine to run WAY too rich down low. it would never be any good on the street. the difference is only about 25hp anyway, all up top, and just not worth the considerable increase in expense.
the coding plug does not put you in open loop. open loop is only for WOT, not for part throttle, where the problem is. using the resistor just bypasses the O2 sensor. what that means is that the engine cannot tell where things are as well, and you are stuck with rpm and load based maps. it is really rich like that. remember that these engines are designed to use oil. that means that the fuel and oil mix. when you are running stoich, that isn't such a big deal. when you are running rich, that means that the fuel is not being burned, and ends up in the oil. we all know what that does.
you cannot run on boost at stoich and expect the engine to survive. that is what happens if you run the motronic unaltered. it brings the mix back in less than 1/2 second. you can easily sustain boost at part throttle for 10 seconds. that's a LOT of detonation.
that's why i rewrote the motronic.
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - 986boxster1998 - 09-21-2011
How much are/would the kits go for I didn't see the price on the threads?
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - Eric_Oz_S2 - 09-21-2011
Flash, are you suggesting that there were no cars produced with the jumper present? The FWSM is pretty clear that the O2 sensor is ignored with the coding plug installed, in which case they effectively run open loop (no lambda control). Even on part throttle (o2 equipped cars), the DME can revert to open loop over certain load and rpm limits. Have you changed where the DME switches between open and closed loop or have you adjusted the lambda adjustment maps (not the PT maps) to limit the correction over certain rpms/loads?
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - flash - 09-21-2011
not at all. they were the cat delete cars. those were in countries like south africa where they had only leaded fuel. there weren't many of them though.
it does not switch to the open loop map until you are nearly full throttle and full load. it relies mostly on the part throttle maps, which is why this is such a big problem
i re-wrote the code, and added a new map.
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - zms968 - 09-27-2011
I would likely be interested in about a year, but not likely much before that.
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - 986boxster1998 - 09-28-2011
I got access to the attached documents! The kit sounds amazing! The $4,199 price sounds like a great value and I would be interested in the lay away plan or an out right purchase about a year out. Thanks, Dan
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - flash - 09-28-2011
lol - how's this for great?
i dropped the price a few months ago and it's now down to $3995
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - bombfactory - 09-28-2011
Dammit Flash - quit making it harder (or is that easier?) for us fence-sitters!
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - ds968 - 09-29-2011
If I ever buy a tip ( which I am considering more and more these days for the the daily commute, ' cause the Mercedes is way too boring and really starting to get on my nerves..) the SC is a no-brainer, so not sure if this counts as a putting the cart before the horse type interest , but if and when that happens, hope there' s one more unit left on the shelf :-)
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - Sifubs - 09-29-2011
Count me in for the next batch, I missed out on the last one
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - 986boxster1998 - 10-06-2011
$3,995 sounds even better! I had read one of the old posts about the price going up to the $4,199 due to some increased costs.
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - flash - 10-06-2011
yup
then costs went down, and so did the price.
if somebody has a dead ac compressor they can loan me, i can get cracking on the AC delete version.
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - rxter - 10-06-2011
You beat me to it Darryl - and thanks for the interruption.
I'm in for both the SC round 3 and the umbrella. Might be a lean holiday (for the kids that is <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.png" class="smilie" alt="" />
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - xrad - 10-17-2011
Read over the SC pages, past and present. Nice work Flash!
Any updates to the early 92 ecu exclusions?
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - flash - 10-17-2011
not at this time. the one attempt at the programming for the early ECU failed. if i had an early ECU, i think i could get that worked out. unfortunately they are pretty scarce.
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - xrad - 10-19-2011
unfortunately, I think I have one in my car....I guess I could upgrade to Haltech sprint 500 Control which would solve all fuel/ timing issues...
I have been reading the reviews of your design and competitor's designs. Althought not as powerful, your system looks to be exactly what I want to do....safely, without intercooler, keeping the AC, without overboosting..and just a few more HPs. I still have all the parts for the turbo conversion, but I have become lazy regarding turbo engine build in my 968 since aquiring two more Alfas.
I will look into the 968 Bosch FI sensors.
Cheers, X
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - flash - 10-19-2011
i'd check your ECU number.
even if you do have an early one though, it's not necessary to screw around with standalone. ECUs aren't that expensive. drop in a late one, and you're good to go. i haven't given up on the early ECU tuning though. i just need one to play with.
not as powerful??? it makes the same power as the only other unit out there that retains the AC claimed it made, but this one actually works (and costs less too). the other centrifugal systems don't come with the tuning, and still cost a lot more before you even get to that.
oh, and it's not about horsepower anyway, it's about the torque band, and i'll match mine up in the useable rpm range against any other kit
there is a hard ceiling on power with my system though, with no ability to change it, no matter what you do, and it may or may not be enough for you
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - JWahlsten - 10-19-2011
Bob,
I have an early ECU you can "borrow". Remember the issues I had with getting my chip to work... I'd also like to chat with you about current recommendations for shocks.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Round 3 of Supercharger Kits? - flash - 10-19-2011
ring me up whenever. if you don't have my number, drop me an email and i'll send it to you.