[biotechee]

Especially at work.



I can't stand it when people around me act like morons and don't step up. I'm in a small company (less than 15 people) and we all have different hats to wear... But, there are some very clear cut lines of responsibility yet apparently I am one of a small subset of the workforce which realizes this.



VERY frustrating.



Then to top it all off, I get asked questions (damn near constantly) about things I have no knowledge. My crystal ball broke long ago...



Right behind work in terms of frustration is unaccountability in our country. That's a whole 'nother facet of my general angst!!!!

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[Rap]

At the risk of offense, how is it that management is unaware of the morons who don't step up? Or do they choose nt to confront it?

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[Langley968]

[quote name='Rap' timestamp='1332969200' post='123990']

At the risk of offense, how is it that management is unaware of the morons who don't step up? Or do they choose nt to confront it?

[/quote]



They usually are "family"! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.png" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Chris Vais]

I have to agree with Jim on this one. I have some serious questions about what we are teaching young people in this country. I find that a significant number of people coming out of college these days lack even the most basic critical thinking skills and are consequently incapable of assuming responsibility for anything. It seems that they are taught only how to past tests.

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[ds968]

In the U.S everyone is a victim, never at fault for anything, there's always an excuse, or someone else or something else to blame... and if there isn't , we'll invent something dammit ! :-) :-)

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[Rap]

What a minute that needs to go to the education thread! I have remarked on the differences in knowledge and skill sets that young workers present for a while now. We have created an entitled class who believe that showing up and minimal participation are a fulfillment of any workplace requirement. They can't look you in the eye, have no manners, no etiquette, no real desire to be curious and learn, reading and writing forgetaboutit. They are very good at computers, games and social media but that's it. I ain't the sharpest tool in the box but my knowledge base at their age was far greater. Perhaps it is what and how the schools teach but when you tell someone who merely shows up that their great or who lose in a competition that they were great its not hard to comprehend where we are at today. I have spoken to the owner of a major defense contractor, family business, and his company won't look at people under 40. No work ethic he has lamented to me. And let's not get into drugs and alcohol and how they factor into it. On the flip side, we sell second chances and routinely hire people that no employer with the info we get would rightfully hire. Drug and alcohol pasts, limited or unfinished education, rap sheets that are now all too common in this work place are all the norm when we look at hires. Some work some don't, but it gets back to my original question of does management know and why do they allow this to occur. Many workplace difficulties can be attributed to poor managing. Most workers can be trained. It's extra work, it's harder but it can be done. Since this reflects what the composition of a percentage of our word force is today it would seem to me that management must realize,accept and embrace this reality and put procedures and understandings in place to deal with this issue and ultimately these opportunities.

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[flash]

yup - in this day and age where we are afraid to criticize, must be politically correct, and our children are led to believe that they can have it all, and we give every kid a trophy, we set ourselves up for a society of underachievers that take no responsibility for anything.



we really need to get back to the day where achievement dictated credit, losers got criticized, and there were consequences for actions.



how did "spare the rod and spoil the child" become "put down the rod and let us coddle the child"?

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[lbpesq]

Geeeeesh, this sounds just like the stuff my parents and their generation said about me and my generation. Are we really getting that old? As GBS said, "youth is wasted on the young". That's just the way it is.



Bill

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[flash]

lol - yeah, but the difference is that when i was a kid, the principal could spank the kids, there were no trophies for 6th place, you knew who the special kids were, you knew that if you didn't do well in school that you were stuck pumping gas, and if you got busted for something, you went to jail.



now, the principal can't even yell at a kid, everybody is "special", nobody learns anything in school because they are only taught to pass a test, nobody pumps gas, and you stand a better chance of winning the lottery than going to jail for things we would have cringed at as kids.

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[Cloud9...68]

On a similar note, is it just me, or is the adage to not "judge" taken to more of an extreme today that it was in years past? I know this can be a slippery slope, as the decree to not judge goes back at least to biblical times, but since when did it become verboten to speak out against thuggish, disgusting, and amoral behavior? Just because we weak humans are prone to buckle in the face of temptation in all its forms doesn't mean that it's OK to do so. I thought that having the backbone and discipline to resist the temptation to do something you know is wrong is part of what defines greatness. I'm not saying we should return to unrealistically prudish, puritanical standards ("he who's without sin should cast the first stone," and all that...), but it just seems to me that we as a society have swung too far to the extreme of excusing bad behavior as "It's OK - we're only human, after all." I guess it comes down to the fact that we seem to have lost our sense of shame.

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[rxter]

I feel my self esteem dropping just reading this thread. Uh oh...

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[tamathumper]

@Cloud, I get the sense that today in America, nobody should ever get hurt or even offended, ever, by anything, or a lawsuit will be in the works. Case in point, the woman who filed a suit against McDonalds recently saying their low pay forced her into prostitution.

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[Rap]

We used to be self reliant. We used to have a work ethic and a belief system that if you worked hard you could get ahead. We used to believe the American dream was attainable. Now too many believe that the American dream is a right that should be granted to you rather than a privilege that one must earn. We are so PC oriented, foisted on us by those who for some reason seem to think they have been invested with the right and power to determine how we shall be allowed to act and behave that we are slowly divesting ourselves of that which allowed everyone the opportunity to achieve their own dreams. Standards of Discipline and accountability are not discriminatory against those that can't meet those standards. They are the muscle which holds together a highly functioning society.

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[Scott Collins]

I've taught college, high, middle, and elem. in PA and NJ. Public and private. More and more I try hard to avoid generalization because it just breaks down. I can tell you that judgement and criticism are alive and well in my classroom and in the rooms of many of my peers, along with a healthy dose of sarcasm. But the kids are human beings, and I always make sure they know that when the criticism is leveled on them, almost always in front of their peers, it's to help them get better. If something sounds awful, I use that word. They get used to my style, ready or not. Life is too short to beat around the bush. If they have an issue, they can knock on my open door.



When I did marching band, I ran what amounts to a character education program for the cadre (the student leaders). It was clear that it was a huge deficit for many kids. (So many families in our area have both parents working like dogs to make ends meet. It's so very, very, very different than when I grew up - I'm 44) Because they all do so much relating online, the first thing we did was practice introducing ourselves to actual real humans, in person. Crazy, right? Extending a hand, shaking firmly, and saying, "Hello, I'm John", is really, really tough and awkward to many kids. Funny in a way and many smile sheepishly because they know they should be able to do it. But they always came back the next year, no matter what, because of the team spirit that was cultivated, in part.



As far as administrators go, no two are the same. Just like teachers, they have rules to follow, people to answer to, and their own upbringing informs what values they choose to emphasize to kids. I have three principals in my building, and I think that they are overwhelmed. They don't get much time to enjoy the good stuff that takes place in school. Basically, any incident between two students needs to be reported within 24hrs and becomes an investigation. This is grades 6-8, in a school with 1,500 students. If I see two kids pushing and shoving on the playground during lunch, and don't report it within 24hrs, it could become a serious deal. I don't have discretion to work it out with the students. I have to pass it up as a report. And if the students harass each other online, after school hours, at home, on the weekend, etc., the school is still responsible for investigating and taking action.



Anyway, there will always be the excuse makers, the naysayers, the victims, born in "lotus land". I enjoy finding those kids and helping them so see the error of their ways. Regardless of laws, social climate, etc. the good teachers find ways and never make excuses. If a kid fails it means you failed. Nuts!

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[Rap]

Well said. Is this part of the new bullying law that I hear is taking so much time?

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[Scott Collins]

That's right.

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[Rap]

We have noticed a drop in referrals from out patient providers who claim teachers and administrators now have all there time taken up by the requirements of this new law. Op's claim no time to id kids with drug and alcohol problems. Think that's true?

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[Scott Collins]

Rap:



I would say that the new law has caused significant changes in what we do and how we do it. What used to be a discussion between two students, perhaps resolved with immediate consequences, handshakes, apologies, etc, done in 5 min., now might take a week of multiple interviews of students, parents, other faculty, staff, etc., including computer forensics.



This does not mean that the law is a waste, but it does remove from the loop some of the very individuals who mentor kids. Their teachers. Because once the investigation begins and we report an incident, we are out of the loop and administrators take over. Nothing anyone can do about it. And the incident could be actually serious, with more going on than meets the eye. Or, it could be something like two kids arguing over a basketball and one pushes the other and he falls down. Is that bullying, or just two 11 year old boys doing what they do?



As far as your referral situation, I'm not at all surprised to hear that. Our administrators don't have a minute to spare, any day of the week, but kids still have drug and alcohol abuse problems. We find the stuff in school sometimes, or suspend students who arrive, that right, arrive at school under the influence. It's far from the norm, but it happens.



If anything, the bullying law has led us to closely examine how best to protect kids, but there is a possible down side. Kids that don't learn to protect themselves become even easier targets for bullying and intimidation.

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[Rap]

Interesting, my two marketers over in NJ reported this to me as I said when I noticed a referral source drop. In this day of economic uncertainty and stress it's good to know why business drops and if you are complicit in the reason for it! Bullying is of course a rapidly growing problem. Lots of reasons for it and difficult solutions to enact. Your admin folks must be stressed out the zoo with all this extra time consuming processes to follow. Must make you glad your a teacher eh?

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[94SilverCab]

I too, can become agitated by the seeming lack of our youth culture to adopt the sense of duty and responsibilty that was part of our "training". Rather than adding more doom and gloom to this conversation I would like to say that my company is closely aligned with Drexel University in Philadelphia (small, but well respected). We hire 5-year Architect and Engineering students (*one year of internship is required), often with the hope that they will become employees.



Yes, there are some lazy stoners who drag their butts into work like they are working a job at 7-11, but we also have a cadre of really bright people. The young staff have so much technology ability that their drawing and design capabilities often exceed the ability of senior designers to follow the design. This has led to a "push me/pull you" situation. In the old days, a "Master" would develop a design concept and then pass the drawing onto youngsters to draft. Now that CADD is passe' and BIM is the new reality, the youngsters are drawing the design and leading the effort with the Masters making course corrections along the way. This is a steep curve, but leads to a symbiotic relationship that forces the old to reckon with the new, and the new to understand that the "unicorns and rainbows" of pure design have to meet the reality of buildability. I am impressed every day at the know how and leadership these kids display. On some things they are way ahead of the curve, Sustainability is part of their DNA. They understand the importance of quailty workplace design and the productivity that can be gained in clean, safe and comfortable environment. I have seen these kids practically kill themselves to meet a deadline or finish a Energy Model that they take total ownership over.



I'm still annoyed by the slacker who is too busy texting their friend to served ma a cup of coffe, but I am very hopeful about some of the talent I get to see every day.



JMO,



Jay

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