[Cloud9...68]

This has been discussed to differing degrees on some other threads, so I thought it would be useful to start a new thread to discuss the topic head on. Namely, as our engines get 15+ years, and over 100K miles on them, what sort of proactive major maintenance, if any, should be done to them, and, to be blunt, is it really worth it on a car worth barely $10K in many cases?

My big decision point deals with the fact that the two known major wear points, the head/gasket, and the rod bearings, reside on opposite sides of the engine. So, does it make sense to do the work on the top and bottom of the engine, but not take care of the rings, which often leads to expensive machine work on the cylinders? But on the flip side, the rings should easily last 150K plus, so does it make sense to replace them just because they're sandwiched between the other two major wear items?

And this leads to a further point, the dreaded "while-we're-in-there" work. Personally, I love to track my car, and am in desperate need of more power coming out of the turns. So, if the engine (arguably) needs be torn apart anyway, why not take this opportunity to go for broke (ooh, such an ugly word [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img] ), and do the Stage 2 RS Barn head, and, oh, why not the hotter cams, which need the headers to work, which needs the Stage 2 chip, and of course the cat back? And if we're talking about rings, why not go ahead and punch it out to 3.2 liters? We're talking about a once-every-15-years job, right? And of course, with all this new-found power, serious suspension work will also be needed, right?

So then the inevitable question is - Is it worth throwing such a silly sum of money at a car that's worth so little? But, on the other hand, with the right mods, especially in the skilled hands of someone like RS Barn, the end result would be truly a world-class sports/GT car. To match it, you'd have to spend at least $37K (I'm thinking Nissan 370Z, which I'm not sure would be competitive with the modded 968, so we're really looking at Cayman money, so more like $60K). And with a properly-prepared 968, you'd end up with the coolest-looking, most unique car of the bunch.

So, the question of what to do comes down to:

1) Do nothing, save your pennies, continue to meticulously maintain your car (maybe including going to more frequent oil change intervals), and wait for ugly things to start happening
2) Proactively just rebuild the known weak points, and plan on doing the rings a few years down the road. Fight off the temptation to use the opportunity to do the other mods
3) Pick the moment, and do a full rebuild, along with as many mods as you and your budget can handle
4) Come to the conclusion that the economics of a major rebuild don't make sense, and start looking for something newer.

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[flash]

factors to consider in answering the question:

is this to be a dual purpose car? (street / track)
i never recommend this, but i also understand that not everybody can have both a track car and a street car

do you have another car you can drive while this one is down?
this will be critical in deciding how deep to go - major modification work takes a lot more time than repair work

how much do you love this car?
if this is not the "it" car, then move onto something that is - there is absolutely no sense in spending huge money on something you don't love - you would be better served by finding a lower mileage used engine and dropping it in, and then selling your core

if, however, this is the car you love, then it really doesn't matter how much you spend on it, because in the end, it will likely still be less than a new car

perspective check: i have spent well over $40k in mods and such on this car, and i have not yet even gotten inside the engine - even factoring in the purchase price i paid for the car, i still look at it as less than a bone stock 360, and i have something more unique and personal - sure, i may ultimately get something else, but i'll keep the 968 too

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[Cloud9...68]

I guess my perspective has been swayed by the incredible results obtained by people like Benspeeder with their cars. I never thought the 968 could be competitive with other sports and GT cars in the same initial price range, but RS Barn has proven that they can not only be made to compete, but can exceed the performance of their contemporaries. So, in this respect, the 968 looks like almost the ideal dual purpose car. Agreed, this isn't the best approach, but since so few people can afford a dedicated track car, it's encouraging the see that the 968 can really be made to hold its own with the various BMWs, Corvettes, Honda S2000s, Z Cars, and other dual purpose cars, on track days. I can hold my own as it is against many of these cars, so I can only imagine how much fun it would be to drive a properly prepared 968 on the track, but still be able to pick up groceries with it on the way home.

So, yes, in my case, I really do love this car. For me, the question comes down to how much risk am I taking by continuing to drive it while I save up to do the work it probably needs?

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[flash]

look at it this way: you are going to buy an engine for the car - the results will be the same regardless of when you do it - the costs will be essentially the same regardless of when you do it - you will have many years of fun with the new engine

really the only question is "when do you want that fun to start"?

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[ds968]

IMO, no point trading the 968 in favor of another old car you may think is more beautiful, more fun, faster, etc ( Ferrari, or what not.. ) becausse you'll face the very same issues, and perhaps even more headaches with any vehicle that has aged.. so that leaves one with the choice of buying a new car. And therein lies the dilemma ( at least for me.. ). I can't think of a single new car I'd like to drive on a regular basis more than the 968, that has a price tag below $ 100k. Not one ! And at those levels, I'd much rather continue to sink money into my 968, thank you ..

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[tom968]

My answer would be no. 1. Or, if it ain't broke
don't fix it.

There's 944's with over 200k miles on the clock
that have never had any major engine work.

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[Johannvb]

That fact that these cars have no real value is what apeals to me so much. It allows me to tinker with it. If I bought a 993 or Cayman etc. I wouldn't touch it. The reason for this is that modified cars loses value in a big way. But if the car is already worth nothing, who cares?

So the way I see it, this is my fun car. I can do to it what I want and I can learn to do stuff that I would never attempt on a car with higher market value.

Would I dump 10 -15 Grand on an engine upgrade...yes, if I had the money. If I were to build a Turbo replica I think I will still have one of the best Porsches you can buy for under 80 000 euro. My Hart only start beating faster for the GT3s.

But If you want return on investment...don't bother. So I guess it's like Flash said...if you're gonna keep it then spend the money, but if you're thinking of selling it in the near future just keep up the maintenance and fix only what breaks.

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[Ryan]

OK, the cars are not worth that much and it cost a fortune to get big power out of them..... Drop that LS-1 in there and have a little fun out of those turns.

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[flash]

lol - yeah - as soon as our cars become as low in value as the 944 i figure we'll see a lot more such conversions - that's just kind of how it goes - the power would be fun for sure, but the rest of the work to handle that power and regain the handling would be a daunting task - it has taken me over 5 years to get the handling up to snuff on my car, i'm not looking to mess with that all over again due to the weight change, torque change, and rear squatting that would result from that - i'm just now getting used to the rhythm of the gears too, a V8 would be totally different

but, to each his own - as i said, if you are going to keep it, do whatever makes you happy

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