[Charles Geer]

Hey guys / gals anybody planning on racing the NASA nationals at Mid OHio.



What class will you be running in.

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[Jim Child]

I plan to run it in GTS2. You need five races to qualify, and I'll be running the first two at Mid Ohio next month.

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[Charles Geer]

Hey Jim:



I'm taking a look at the rules. Would love to run GTS3 but don't know how to take an PCA F stocker (3086 lbs) down to 2100 lbs and bring it back up to F weight again.



I got on my calculator last night and figured a 968 probably makes 205 rear wheel horse power and multiply that by the GTS2 power to weight ratio of 14.50

and came up with 2972 lbs with driver.



Subtract my 200 lbs out of the car and were looking at a car that can be dieted down to 2772 lbs.



Jim is your math coming out the same?



I think we would be competitive without overly damaging the STOCK look of a PCA racer.

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[Jim Child]

I don't see how a F-stock 968 can be competitive in GTS3. As it is we're right on the border between GTS2 and GTS3. Better to be competitive in GTS2 than uncompetitive in GTS3. If you made your car light enough to be competitive in GTS3, there's no way you could easily convert back to PCA stock specs.



If you dyno your car, you'll probably find that you're making a bit more than 205 rwhp, especially if you've done all of the legal F-stock mods like intake, header, and exhaust. Lets assume you're making 215 rwhp. That means that the car including 200 lb driver can weigh 3,117 lbs (14.5*215), or 2,917 lbs without driver.



As it is, I have to run almost 100 lbs of ballast, and the 28 lb. spare tire in the car to make the F-stock minimum of 3,086 lbs with an empty tank. To convert from PCA to NASA specs, all I do is remove the spare and the ballast, a 10 minute job at most. That puts the car at the sharp end of the GTS2 class, and I found it to be very competitive last year, winning the GTS2 class in all 4 of the races I ran.

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[Charles Geer]

No Header, No Intake yet but glad to hear it helps performance. Boy 215 rwhp...not bad. Got a couple Euro M3 buddies talkin _ _ _ _. Cars are fully gutted making 290 at the wheels. These guys are telling me that PCA clubracing is a lessor standard than NASA for highly competitive clubracing. Just trying to figure out how racing against four in class is better than racing against thirty in class.

NOT TO KNOCK NASA. I like the group alot. would like to see some of us F and E cars go whip the _ _ _ _ out of some of those Bimmers.



A closer look at the numbers.



This past weekend at Road Atlanta (Nasa Southeast).

E 36 Euro M3's (290 rwhp) weighing 2600 lbs without driver / LAP time 1.38-1.39



COMPARED TO:



2005 PCA clubrace / Road Atlanta April 2005.

E stock 944 Turbo S (250 hp <engine>) weighing 3000 lbs / LAP time 1.39 - 1.40



NASA rule allow the PCA car to drop 600 lbs to run with the Euro M3s.



This is just a up close look at the Southeast region competition in GTS3.

Furthermore, Jim I'm am not suprised that you are killing the competition for what they don't know is that you race in the most competitve class in PCA.



(There are 35 F cars signed up to race Road ATL this weekend..sorry we can't be there).



Jim: I'll join you in GTS2 NASA. Lets have an all 968 podium at the nationals.

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[Eric_K]

There are a couple Euro M3s (or built equivilant) in the Northwest. They are very fast. However, the 968 stacks up decently eventhough on paper the M3 should be waaay faster. Like Charles said, a race prepped euro M3 is ~290rwhp(if not more) and ~2600lbs. I'm about equal on weight but down a lot of horses. In the last endurance race I was able to consistently run faster laps than one of them and I was able to stay in the neighborhood of the better driven and developed one. The biggest factor is of course the driver. Also, compared to the 968 the M3 is a bit of a brick aerodynamically. I'd venture to say a 968 with the same amount of power would be a much faster car. But that's the rub isn't?



My enduro co-driver is prepping a E36 M3. He is getting 262 rwhp with bolt on mods. Its not so easy to do that with a 968.



Eric

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[Charles Geer]

Eric:







Just curious how light is your 968 / without driver?

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[Eric_K]

2575 with ~1/8 tank of gas.

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[Jim Child]

[quote name='Charles Geer' date='Mar 27 2006, 06:14 AM']Jim: I'll join you in GTS2 NASA. Lets have an all 968 podium at the nationals.

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Excellent! I look forward to seeing you there! Remember you need to score points in 5 regional races to qualify for Nationals. That means you need to schedule 3 NASA race weekends, since there are usually two races per weekend. If you look you might be able to find a three race weekend, and do it all in two weekends.



In my limited experience there is no way that NASA is more competitive than PCA, so I think your BMW friends are confused. 35 cars, vs. 4 cars in class seems pretty clear to me. It will be interesting to see how many GTS2 cars show up for the National race. I hope and suspect it will be far more then the 4 or so cars showing up at the early season regionals. There have to be more PCA guys than just you and me excited by the prospect of crossing over and competing for a national title.

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[Charles Geer]

I'd like to se more PCA participation and maybe they will if we can show off a few nice trophies. Jim I've raced with you and know that we will do well. I have to believe that the nationals is where we will see the strong competition come out. It's going to be nice to race other cars outside of our own make. Glad to hear you've got your up and running well again. I look forward to watching the PCA race in Atlanta this weekend. Can't get over 35 f cars....not so many 968s , I believe just one. I expect Mark Hupher to win it if he doesn't break. I won it last year turning 1:42 lap times....Mark has turned 1:40s in his Euro SC...WOW, not a bad year to be a spectator.

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[Jim Child]

[quote name='Charles Geer' date='Mar 29 2006, 02:23 AM']Can't get over 35 f cars....not so many 968s , I believe just one. I expect Mark Hupher to win it if he doesn't break. I won it last year turning 1:42 lap times....Mark has turned 1:40s in his Euro SC...WOW, not a bad year to be a spectator.

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I agree with your Road Atlanta prediction. Nobody in F is going to be able to touch Hupfer. He is pretty much unbeatable in his F car wherever he goes. I just saw that the Mid Ohio club race entry list is up, and he's going to be there too. Hopefully he and Gary Grigsby will leave some room for me on the podium <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Dave]

I'm gonna wander way off topic here, but this is certainly the right group of racers to ask...



[B][color="blue"]What have you each done for oil cooling on your 968's?[/[/color]B]



I'm running with the original oil cooler configuration in my F-Stock 968 and looking for additional cooling (for my piece of mind).



Options I am considering include:



1) Replace original cooler with largest MOCAL unit I can fit in there.

2) Add second cooler on the driver side (where the Tiptronic oil cooler would go).

3) Both of the above?



Recommendations very welcome. I still drive the car on the street daily, thus need to keep the thermostat in play.



Thanks in advance,

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[Charles Geer]

Mark Hupher (1979 Euro SC) won the F stock race turning a lap time in the low 1:40s / the secong fastest F car was turning 1:42s (944 turbo).

He came in 3rd overall to a couple familiar D cars with Terry Heath taking first place in a 1987 930 turbo and new Porsche Cayman (driver unknown) who had to use every bit of straight to keep Mark off his butt.



Boy just when you're starting to get a little confidence as a race driver guys like Mark make you feel like you should'nt be on the same track.

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[Jim Child]

[quote name='Charles Geer' date='Apr 3 2006, 07:14 AM']Boy just when you're starting to get a little confidence as a race driver guys like Mark make you feel like you should'nt be on the same track.

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Don't feel too bad about Hupfer's speed. While its true that he is a fantastic driver, its also true that the #79 car is extremely fast. I have yet to see a 968 that can keep up with his car on the straights.



BTW, regarding oil coolers, I'm just running the stock cooler. I know others who have added a second cooler driver's side.

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[Dave]

Good to hear that 968's seem to be surviving with the stock cooler Jim. I suppose I should start with an oil temp gauge <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Eric_K]

FWIW, I'm running the stock cooler too.

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