[cosimo]

Well my 968 has had a bad time of lately. First the over heating, next the tiniming belt and now a catastrophic failure. Driving with the Porsche Club on a drive and dine through the Virginia mountains I was making a left hand turn (from a flat road to a flat road and misjudged the turn. Went trough a 2 ft ditch and broke the oil cooler and raditor. No oil and within a few yards the engine stopped. Got it back to the shop and the engine needs a major rebuild. The insurance company totaled the car and I bought it back for $300. Body hardly damaged but the splitter was toast. so, now do I repair the the current engine or opt for a rebuilt? I found 3 engines on the Internet from 51k to 109k miles with waraanty from 6 months to 3 years. I don't know the terms of the warranties. Prices from $4500 to $2600. Ivan is leary of them as he does know the sellers. The cost to rebuild would certainly be more than purchasing the rebuilds but I would know what I'm getting if I rebuild the current engine. Also we talked about finally doing the turbo now that the engine is out of the car. The engine would need to sleeved,4 new pistons and the crank refurbed.I want to keep the car as it is still in greeat shape.

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[MCL968]

I would first ask the opinion of a qualified and experienced body/frame shop. Critical damage is not often visible from the outside, and their opinion might encourage you to go one way over the other. I had a similar experience with a Ford Escape a few years ago, and once I saw the hidden damage, I realized that they totaled it for a reason.

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[flash]

bummer



this is exactly where i was about my engine a couple of years ago. i opted to rebuild it, and really do it up, so i had the peace of mind of knowing what was under the hood. a used motor has no guarantee that you won't be right back where you started not far down the road.



as for a turbo, as much fun as that might be, if the cost is already an issue, it won't get better with a turbo, and you can prepare to double that.



as for the rest of the damage, i agree that a close and detailed inspection is in order. as this is a unibody car, any frame damage will be difficult to correct, will never be truly right, and will always result in a weaker car. i would not even consider increasing power on a car with a damaged frame.

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[cosimo]

The turbo is already paid for. I have been waiting for the opportune time and this maybe it. I have had the frame checked and it seems to be okay.

I am leaning to having the engine rebuilt. Do you still have any splitters?

They totaled it because of the cost to rebuild the engine.

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[flash]

the hardware of a turbo is the easy part. turbos themselves are inexpensive. it's the tuning, small bits, and such that is the cost.



splitters are still available. they are made to order and take a couple of days.

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[cosimo]

I'm in no hurry. Your splitters are defintely the best on the market.

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[Rap]

I just bought an engine and ran it last week at the track. It appears to consume oil. I had two choices I have been mulling over. If the engine seemed ok, leave it alone. Now it appears that option might need to be reconsidered. I am leaning heavily toward a rebuild and upgrade for piece of mind and durability. You said Ivan was Leary because he knew the sellers? What state are they in? The guy I bought my engine from had also just picked up one or two more 968's which he was going to part. Let me know if you want more info.

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[94SilverCab]

So sorry for your loss. It sounds like you really dodged a bullet and I'm glad you weren't hurt.



After thorough inspection I would say that you should rebuild the engine you have. If Ivan is leery of the one proposed to buy for $4,500, you'll probably pay twice.



If the turbo is on Ivan's dime, I say go for it, otherwise it looks like a rabbit hole for $$$.



JMHO,



Jay

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[cosimo]

I said Ivan was leary becuade he did know the sellers. He has certain vendors he trusts and none had any engines. I've seen him rebuild lots of engines 911s,944s,968,356 and more and know he very thorough and meticulous. The turbo is not on Ivan's dime but mine but I have already paid the money and have been waiting for him to do the install. Now is probably the time.

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[968Syncro]

I had a similar event a few years ago, bought the car back from insurance. No regrets at all, fixed it up, but the economics were very different since I was able to do essentially all repairs myself. Remember that the car needs to be a keeper at that point, since with a salvage title the market value will be less than what it is worth to you.

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[flash]

yup - i've also done that. it is indeed hard to deal with a salvage title. some insurance companies won't give you full coverage on a salvage title.



re: paying for the turbo - if you've paid about $20k, then it might be paid for. but, that's what it's going to cost to do it, at a minimum. heck, miles paid well over 30k for his setup. even just turbocharging a car that is already fully set up will be at least $8k. it's a really slippery slope, and not an inexpensive one, no matter which way you look at it. been there done that. as you say, ivan is meticulous. that translates to expensive. based on his other projects, i would expect that he would charge about $20k to turbocharge a 968, factoring in all of the other things the car would need in order to deal with the turbo properly.



would be a great project, and a lot of fun, but definitely not going to be inexpensive, quick, or allow for resale on a salvage title. be sure this is the car you want to drive forever.



if it helps, i am going through a similar decision right now, and still don't know which way i'm going to go.

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[Rap]

Cosimo, it's merely a matter of money. If you want the car turbocharged finally and have the cash to do it then you should do it. Might want to know what that cost is going to be upfront but that is still your choice.

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[cosimo]

Rap, Iv'e paid for the turbo already. I have been waiting for Ivan to put it all together. We did do a test engine a while back and put in on the engine dyno at the shop and got 370HP at the crank. The main cost will rebuilding the engine. I need to call the insurance company and take it off the policy. Not sure how they are going to value the car but my premiums have already gone up.

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[Rap]

Looks like I'm in the same boat. What are you doing in the engine rebuild?

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[94SilverCab]

Cosimo, I'm assuming that you didn't have a stated value policy...this would be a good time to remind everyone that you should have a stated value policy...



Jay

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[flash]

off topic - i'll be very interested to see how the turbo works out, how it drives on the street, and what it puts out at the wheels, without somebody's "calculations" to the crank. every aftermarket turbo out there so far has issues , varying in severity (with the possible exception of the low boost high compression red car). i suspect that it's because of the over aggressive power levels the builders have sought out. it would be nice to see one that was actually factory perfect. ivan is very good. he just might pull it off.

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[cosimo]

Rap, I'm not sure but here is what I know so far: 1) cylinder sleeving, 2) replacing 4 pistons, 3) refurb crankshaft 3) replace oil cooler and raditor. If we go for the turbo it will be an oil intercooler. I also need a new clutch (not accident related). Going for a Sachs sport clutch. There maybe more as the rebuild goes on. The sleeving and crankshaft jobs are farmed out.

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[flash]

i contemplated the sleeving when i found my cylinders needed work. i was hopeful that i could have gone larger and such. when i talked to darton though, they were not at all confident that a boosted setup would be sustainable long term, even at stock diameter, due entirely to the open deck design. they felt that things would move too much and it would continue to blow head gaskets down the road. they said they were more than willing to try, but would not back it up if it did not work.



so far, lear is the only one to try this.



that being said, unboosted, sleeves have been shown to work just fine, and it gets you out of the whole "alusil" issues and allows some different pistons.



of course, you could just sell off what you have in turbo stuff (or get your money back), buy mile's car that already has a turbocharged engine, stick that in there, use the parts you need from it (fender and such) and then sell off the rest of his car. you may well end up way ahead of the game.

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[jfrahm]

I'd be surprised if it really needed sleeving, usually if you run out of oil a cam seizes first and the bottom end is just fine.

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[cosimo]

There were marks on the cylinder walls. The crank has some scratches and will see if fluxing can bring it back.

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