[TheMirror]

Hi gang -



Just curious if M030 sway bars were ever offered as a standalone option on 968s. My guess is no, but I want to make sure as I prepare for the upcoming autocross season.



Cheers,



-Mirror

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[bob blackwell]

I am sure they could be ordered separately, but think it more likely that they would have been ordered with the M030 Suspension Option complete or at least with the limited Slip Differential. When you order a new Porsche you can order it almost anyway you want. Good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[flash]

i agree - while not an "option package" by themselves, i'm certain you could have ordered it with only those - depending on the steward, you may or may not get passed or bumped in your class - the good news is that as the cars get older, the stewards get more lax

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[kwikt]

That would be great if it were a stand alone option. I just installed Koni's, M030 front bar and Hoosiers..... if someone can prove this, I would definitly install a rear M030 bar to stay in BS stock SCCA!

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[TheMirror]

OK, sweet. If they were available as a standalone option, that would make it legal in SCCA BStock. Thanks guys!



If the local steward puts up a fuss, I'll look for a definitive source.



Cheers,

-Mirror

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[flash]

as said above, they were NOT available as a stand-alone option - you could order them with the delivery of your car, but they were not in the list of pre-packaged options

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[TheMirror]

Hmmm, OK. I understand the difference now. That's a wierd one, it kind of falls into a gray area as far as SCCA rules are concerned. I'll check with my local org and see what they say.



-Mirror

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[pickwick]

[quote name='TheMirror' post='45956' date='Jan 18 2008, 12:31 PM']Hmmm, OK. I understand the difference now. That's a wierd one, it kind of falls into a gray area as far as SCCA rules are concerned. I'll check with my local org and see what they say.



-Mirror[/quote]



Unfortunately there's nothing gray about it. I had the same situation, and specifically asked the SCCA National autocross guy in charge of tech or classes at the time. His reply was that I would enjoy running the car in ASP. Didn't matter that the car was less well-prepared than an M030 car with LSD that could run BS. The rulebook says the entire option has to be installed. Your local guys might be more lenient, especially if you don't win every week.



I chose not to install the M030 brakes & springs, and eventually dropped out of autocross because there was no one else in ASP.

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[TheMirror]

Ah, indeed. I do see how it would probably be rejected at a Nationals level, they leave zero room for creative interpretation there. I'll find out what the local Sacramento region tech thinks soon, and I'll report back....

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[968crazy]

[quote name='TheMirror' post='50137' date='Apr 1 2008, 04:46 PM']Ah, indeed. I do see how it would probably be rejected at a Nationals level, they leave zero room for creative interpretation there. I'll find out what the local Sacramento region tech thinks soon, and I'll report back....[/quote]



most local competetors wont care but the biggest things that will help the car in autocross is the

LSD which would be legal the race tires and the front M030 bar. Also some negative camber helps but you can be competative without the whole M030 package.

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[stewhatch]

[quote name='968crazy' post='50167' date='Apr 1 2008, 06:04 PM']most local competetors wont care but the biggest things that will help the car in autocross is the

LSD which would be legal the race tires and the front M030 bar. Also some negative camber helps but you can be competative without the whole M030 package.[/quote]

I have a '93 w/ LSD and I already bought & will be installing new F & R M030 sway bars and OEM bushings. I will be taking part in SCCA AX this summer and want to know if I am eligible to run in B Stock. The rest of the car is stock.

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[TheMirror]

[quote name='stewhatch' post='50250' date='Apr 2 2008, 07:17 PM']I have a '93 w/ LSD and I already bought & will be installing new F & R M030 sway bars and OEM bushings. I will be taking part in SCCA AX this summer and want to know if I am eligible to run in B Stock. The rest of the car is stock.[/quote]



Technically per the national rulebook, it looks like no..... front sway bars can be replaced under Stock class rules but not the rear. If you only put on the front M030 it would be OK.



That being said, as noted above, local AX refs are much more lax when it comes to that kind of thing, so they may pass you for BS just fine. That's what I'm counting on anyway....



-Mirror

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[968crazy]

[quote name='TheMirror' post='50313' date='Apr 3 2008, 04:31 PM']Technically per the national rulebook, it looks like no..... front sway bars can be replaced under Stock class rules but not the rear. If you only put on the front M030 it would be OK.



That being said, as noted above, local AX refs are much more lax when it comes to that kind of thing, so they may pass you for BS just fine. That's what I'm counting on anyway....



-Mirror[/quote]



99.9% of the locals won't know that a 968 is a 4 cylinder so they surely won't know what kind of rear bar your running. Just enter in BS keep it to yourself and if someone complains play dumb like you didnt know all they will do is move you to ASP.

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[TheMirror]

No doubt. Especially considering its painted black and would use all the standard mounting hardware. A really anal local tech might question the 3 mounting holes on the rear bar, but you could just claim "optional sway bars" and show them the Porsche part number right next to it....



Besides, they'll be looking hardest at all the RX-8's anyway.

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[kwikt]

[quote name='TheMirror' post='50702' date='Apr 9 2008, 03:45 PM']No doubt. Especially considering its painted black and would use all the standard mounting hardware. A really anal local tech might question the 3 mounting holes on the rear bar, but you could just claim "optional sway bars" and show them the Porsche part number right next to it....



Besides, they'll be looking hardest at all the RX-8's anyway.[/quote]



HaHaHa........ unless you smoke em.

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[PorscheG96]

This is an interesting topic for me because when I bought my 968 is was already somewhat modified with racing seats, m030 sway bars, big red brakes, etc. I still think that these components add value to the car but the main consideration before any kind of autocross/track racing is which class the modifications will bump you up to. If you only plan to race for fun then you can bring any upgrades you want [unless there are no other participants in your class which someone else mentioned could be no fun...] On the other hand, if you wish to be competitive then you need to look very carefully at the rules before ending up in a class where you cannot keep up. Determining whether or not you'll be competitive is a whole other story which requires research, but apparently 968's can be extremely competitive in autocross whether its SCCA B stock or PCA. This is not to say that 968's aren't competitive on higher levels, but it's harder to find data that shows more modified 968's competing well in higher classes. But if you have $ to spend then go for it..!



I'd recommend always being honest when disclosing your modifications. Sure, most people won't know the difference between sway bars but the rules are there for a reason. For example, what if standard suspension w/ LSD and m030 sway bars ends up being the trick 968 ax setup? Don't laugh - some folks have actually said this! Then technically you will be cheating because you're driving a car with distinct advantage in a stock class. If you're worried about achieving a simple yet competitive autocross setup then stock class is the way to go. This means stock brakes, stock springs, sway bars, and LSD! AFAIK converting to m030 costs about $4000 in parts [$1000 spindles/hubs, $1000 front struts/springs, $500 rear shocks/springs, $500 sway bars, $1000 front brakes] but won't necessarily be faster than standard suspension with LSD. Many people buy m030 sway bars because they like the different street feel though there's no measurable performance difference.



This year, I'm only competing in PCA autocross because my hodgepodge of modifications [well, after some minor part changes] puts me in a very competitive class. There's also flexibility in the rules to make other changes more toward stock or m030 as the season progresses while remaining in the same class. By the end of this season, my goal is to achieve a totally stock or totally m030 car, then run SCCA B stock next year. The other consideration between PCA competition and SCCA is that tires are pretty much open to any DOT approved model for SCCA, even in stock class!! This almost certainly means you'll need a spare set of lightweight/expensive wheels and a sticky tire budget in order to compete. Considering these things, I've decided to wait and save my $ for one season before diving into SCCA..! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[stewhatch]

Well I have the car back with the new M030 sway bars, new bushings all around incl caster mounts, new control arms, and new brake rotors and pads. What a difference. This has totally transformed the car and I cannot wait to upgrade the shocks and struts. This was by far more then I imagined and worth every penny. I now have a solid car with over 165,000 miles on it. I'd recommend this for anyone - it makes such a huge difference in the handling of the car. I'm not sure if it's any single installed part, or the sum result of all the parts, but who cares. Wow!

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