[Darth Vadar]

You know, I have to admit that Bob (Flash) just might know a thing or three about these 968 things we seem to keep beating our collective heads against!



Motive Power Bleeder and two Liters of ATE Super Blue arrived at my door today (delivered by an extremely cute UPS Driver; Yes, FEMALE!!! WHAT were you thinking??? Really neat spiked hair, and obviously works out, both on and off the job.... but hold it; I'm getting WOT here!)



The Motive PB is one fine piece of equipment! I would have to say even a bit "overengineered", but I sort of appreciate that in a product. Especially one that could potentially spew caustic brake fluid all over my perfect paint!!!



So, I read the instructions (conveniently printed on the back of the PB!). Yes, it really is so simple a Caveman could do it! Okay, that is way overdone, but I just couldn't resist!!! So I dumped in a liter of ATE SB, hooked everything up and went to the right rear brake... outside first, thru the wheel (love those 99TT's with nice wide slots!), then inside. Actually the old fluid didn't look as bad as I expected, but it did have some very small white "flecks" in it as it came out...no idea what those would be...



Long story short, all of the bleeder screws worked perfectly, and the brakes bled out in a matter of minutes. I used 15 lbs of pressure on the PB, and it worked like a charm. I did top off the fluid with half of the 2nd liter after the third brake...



Saved the clutch system for last since it was empty all the way thru... Now here is where Flash gets the credit...he mentioned that he had to bleed the clutch, and then use the old "Push, Hold, Release" and bleed it again with the Power Bleeder...That is exactly what I had to do to mine to get a nice firm clutch pedal!!!



I did use quite a bit of fluid to get the clutch tight, and wound up running almost all of the two liters into and thru the system, but still cheap for something your life depends on out there!



Couple of "Tips"... there is a small plastic "Cup" with slots in it that sits inside the opening of the Brake Fluid Reservoir, that the Fluid level sensor rides up and down inside... carefully remove this Cup before trying to bleed the system! Makes things go a lot faster! And get a length of 1/4 inch I.D. clear plastic tubing about 2 to 3 feet long...this is perfect for going over the bleeder nipples and into a gallon milk jug to hold the spent brake fluid. If you keep the end of the tubing in the fluid in the jug, you won't have to worry about pulling air back into the system. And the brake caliper nipples take an 11mm wrench, as opposed to the Clutch Slave Cylinder, which takes a 7mm wrench. Use good quality wrenches so that you don't "round" off the bleeder nipples! And finally, get a nice plastic Syringe that you would buy to inject marinade into meat, and use that to carefully adjust final fluid level in the Reservoir...



Bottom line...The Motive PB makes this an easy job that will keep your brakes and clutch operating in "Tip Top Shape" for the full driving season! And next year, just replace the Super Blue with the ATE Amber, so that you can see when the change is complete! And oh, yeah...listen to Flash...he knows!

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[Darryl]

Darth,



Thanks for the info...I had heard good things about this particular product and now we know! Glad to hear it went smoothly. I was concerned about trying to bleed the clutch as a one person job, but you've raised my confidence level.



- Darryl

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[Miles'PHTurbo968]

Great! So did you get the UPS chick's number?



Living vicariously thru others

Miles

I too bought a Motive Bleeder this past winter when I swapped the suspensions on my cars. The only problem came when I sucessfully completed the job and accidently kicked over my collecting bottle.

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[Darth Vadar]

No phone number; the better half was in the kitchen, right around the corner! And besides, my Dad always said 'Don't chase anything that you don't know what to do with, after you catch it"!!!



Yep, been there, done that with the bleeder bottle; that's why I switched over to a gallon milk jug... nice square flat bottom. Takes more effort to kick it over!!! And you can see how much "Stuff" you have drained out !

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[Tom in Austin]

Good write up! I'm a Motive convert too. Only things I would add are, try 10-12 lbs pressure, should work as well and lower risk to master cylinder tank and seals.



Secondly, don't wiggle the bleeders while they're open. This lets in air and gives spurious tiny bubbles. I went through a bunch of fluid on the first bleeder before realizing I was letting in the air that kept causing the tiny bubbles. The real air inside the system will come out early on.



Third, if you've changed the proportioning valve, that traps some air inside the antilock that must be bled in another cycle. Engage the antilock several times (like on wet roads), then bleed a second time.



BTW, unlike most cars I'm familiar with (and the Motive instructions), there isn't a master cyl bleeder on our 968s, so skip that step.

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[wiseman]

I see that Motive makes 2 units for the Porsche application......the 1100 Euro[pean and the Blacxk Label 1109. Seems the only difference is the cap. Which ones do you guys have?

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[banditsc]

I was told by a Mechanic friend to spend the extra dollars on the black label. The below is the description of the black label from the Paragon site.



NEW ITEM! BLACK LABEL EUROPEAN POWER BLEEDER. Features Custom-machined aluminum cap and deluxe swivel fitting. Comes with an extra length of high grade poly urethane tubing that won't cloud or crack with exposure to brake fluid

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[pinball1008]

I just spent the day fitting goodridge stainless hoses. All the joints came apart nicely and I had no problems with fitting the new flexi hoses.

But here's the rub. I bled the brakes all the way round TWICE with a power bleeder and they still didn't feel right. So, back round using the old pedal down, pedal up method and now much better. Still not 100% happy though, so I guess I'll run them for a few days and then go round again.

Oh well, nevermind. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Rudolf968]

I want to change the OEM rubber hoses and cluth hose with braided SS and change all the old brake fluid with new Ferodo Race fluid.

1°) Will 2 liter of new brake fluid enough ???



The Goodridge SS hoses came with joints.

But the RS Barn SS clutch hose is without any joints.

2°) Does the clutch hose seal without any joints, perhaps it is with conical threat ???

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[Rudolf968]

figured out 2 liter = enough

Clarks garage notes 1 liter for purging the brakes.

So plus clutch and some reserve : 2 liters will do.

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[Gregg]

I could not race w/o one.

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[dlearl476]

>Yep, been there, done that with the bleeder bottle; that's why I switched over to a gallon milk jug... nice square flat bottom. Takes more effort to kick it over!!! And you can see how much "Stuff" you have drained out !

I bought "Speed Bleeders" for my 911 and my Alfa a couple of years ago and they came with a hose/bag setup that, once you squeeze the air out before you start, fills without a chance of getting any air in the lines. You can see the old/new fluid coming down the line. Honestly, I haven't spilled a drop of BF since I started using this thin. (That was unil I knocked the empty brake fluid bottle that I use to empty the bladder into over last week.) [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif[/img]

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[argos]

I recently got the Motive Black Label bleeder for my brake job and it worked very well. One thing to note though, is you will still have a soft pedal after you bleed the system (obviously nothing is moving there during the bleed). I solved this by depressurizing the system, pumping the pedal until it was firm, and then repressurized and went around the car again. I was surprised the amount of air that came out the second time...

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[flash]

you should not have had to do that. did you put fluid in the motive, per the instructions, prior to beginning?

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[argos]

Yep, I put a little over a litre in the container and topped up the reservoir. I even went as far as to prime the hose of the bleeder. It's apparently not that uncommon to have the pedal go to the floor after, I googled around and found that was common.

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[flash]

sounds like an incomplete bleed, or the reservoir was not full the whole time, allowing air back in. it's a pretty lame design.



i do it twice on each car. this is to allow the remaining air to collect and then be pushed out. i've never had the pedal feel anything but perfect when i do it slowly, with the car COLD, and allow a few minutes between rounds. i'll go through a bit over a liter though to do the job.

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