[968kid]

One of the most endearing traits of the 968 is it's uniqueness. As most of us know there were only 4677 sold in the US, 8116 throughout the rest of the word.

Which made me wonder...how many remain?

I would lean toward a rather high percentage. Some reasons why:

Rather high sticker price for its day = owner more typically inclined to invest in proper maintenance.
Wealthier owner = higher likelihood of owning more than one car so less usage
Body design and paint/finish composition conducive to less rot and corrosion
Nut-cases like me buying a 17 year old car and dumping what little money he has into it's restoration/upkeep

My non-educated guess 68%

or 3180 left in the US
5518 all others
8698 total

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[Johannvb]

Your numbers don't seem right...I think there was somewhere around 12000 sold. I'm sure a search here will bring them up.

But judging from the poor availability of used spares, I too think many of them are still on the road

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[Anchorman]

Let's see...4,677 sold in the US plus 8,116 sold in the rest of the world - 12,793 in total. Sounds like about the same numbers.

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[flash]

as for percentages, i'd guess about half - the reasoning above is sound, but i think might be a bit high

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[Johannvb]

Oops, I misread the first post [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif[/img] . It's like my brain has gone on holiday and just left this blithering idiot behind.

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[flash]

lol - welcome to my world - i'm like that way too often

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Ive been wondering this a lot lately. 4665 cars, 2248 cabriolets, went to the US. Id lean more towards about half left. I see smashed parts cars all the time. Mine is a manual, coupe. At 50% thats only 1200 or so coupes left. Even less 6 speed coupes. Maybe 5-600? Kinda why Im glad I didnt get a car with LSD, and m030..those are even more rare...molesting something that rare with modifications is a shame IMO.

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[flash]

lol - with the aftermarket stuff being better in quality and performance than the M030 stuff, and the M030 parts being ridiculously expensive, there is a good chance that the M030 cars will soon become less valuable than a standard car

with no collector value, a rare car is less desirable than one you can play with

funny how things change

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[968Oz]

I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but down here in Australia M030 CSs command a hefty premium over standard 968s. I presume this is because 1. they are considered collectable since they were once rated as the "best handling car in the world" and thus have some cult status in the Porsche world and 2. because they are a firm track day favourite. A good CS will cost you twice the price of a non M030 standard car.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Yeah, CS's are even more rare, and I see em advertised for top dollar. Ive seen 68's with LSD, and damn near 200k for like 15000. I picked mine up with way less miles no LSD tho, for 8k.. For an extra k I can just throw in a torsen gear, and for than a few k put a waaaaay better suspension/braking together than m030. Cant see paying that much extra just for a LSD. The m030 stuff isnt all that these days, def right about that. Still a rare factory option tho. Ive never known of a rare porsche that wasnt collectible. More so the LSD than the m030 tho for sure.

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[flash]

the definition of "collectable", to those in the business, is the current value of the car exceeding it's original purchase price

not a chance of that happening any time soon

it won't be long before the M030 parts dry up - then i'm afraid that those cars will be all but worthless - what was once a desirable car will soon become a real albatross

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[Langley968]

I will be applying for "collectors" status to ICBC (Insurance Corporation of British Columbia) in the new year, since any vehicle production number "under 1500 worldwide" qualifies for "limited model production" under their rules. There were only 1045 Cabriolets produced in 1993, so my 968 should meet the requirements. It means that insurance will be 1/5 off the
"discounted rate" I already get! That will free up money to look after it in the year to come!

Happy New Year to all - wife said we "got to go to the party"!

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[968Oz]

OK ,I'd not heard that definition but then again I'm "not in the business". Its a good definition though because any car for which there is a reasonable ongoing demand will become collectible by this definition, unless we have a string of GFCs. I guess there would be some cars that have not reached collectibility by this definition but would likely to do so in the future. The value of these cars would have stabilised and may start to appreciate in dollar terms.
It seems unlikely that the standard 968 will reach real collectible status, but I reckon there'll be a few guys around like us that will keep demand bubbling along for while. In this country the CS is holding its value. Not sure about Europe. What may make the CS hold its value in the future is its extreme rarity as only ~2000 were made, so its one of the rarest Porsches, and their reputation as great drivers car. The CS is not as rare as the factory 968 turbos of course which I think are collectible by any definition.

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[dietrite]

Unfortunately, just because a car is rare, it doesn't automatically make it worth a lot of money. The demand for the original care was not great and it still takes a special (?) person to appreciate the vehicle. We have these cars because we enjoy them and that is really the only reason to own one.
dietrite

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[968Oz]

Agreed dietrite. Except that in some markets the CS has something of a cult following, but only time will tell how that translates into values. I don't really care though, I love my 968 and I didn't buy it as an investment or display piece.

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[Cloud9...68]

I think the thing working against the 968's substantially appreciating in value is the simple fact that it just wasn't very competitive from a price/performance standpoint against its contemporaries when it was new. The 300ZX, RX7 twin turbo, Supra turbo, and even the MR2 turbo could significantly outrun it for many thousands less. I know this is utter blasphemy, but the sad fact was that it just wasn't that great of a car in its day in stock form. I was in the market for a new high-end sports car/GT in the early 90s (before the kids, when we had the disposable income for such things...), and, while I was aware of the 968, I didn't even bother to test drive one, because it was so outrageously overpriced for the performance it offered. I bought an RX7.

Ironically, with the wonderful mods now available for the car, one can pick up a 968 dirt cheap, and, for a reasonable amount of money, modify it to not only be competitive against its contemporaries, but to give a modern, high-end sports car like the 370Z, and possibly even a Cayman, a run for its money. Basically, the 968 was an unfinished car. It had (has) a chassis with a lot of potential, but is sorely in need of more power. With the upcoming supercharger, and the suspension and brake upgrades already available for the car, it has the potential to hold its own, performance-wise, against anything short of a Corvette. But I don't think upgradability is a great formula for appreciation potential. Seems like just the opposite, if anything.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

With forced induction, you can make a 968 beat just about anything in stock form. A stock 968 was definitely underpowered. Great handling, but underpowered, and the price wasnt justified. Hell Id even say that about the cayman, and boxster. A lot of power can be had from a 968. Unfortunately, putting boost on our cars doesnt seem like a potential for appreciation. I never plan on selling my car. If I do, I expect to sit on it for a while. Waiting for another crazy fool like me. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] Ive watched how other cars with the setup I intend on running sold. Seem to fetch ab out 30k, and take forever to sell. With the 968 tho, I have lots on the shelf already...I may actually be able to pull it off for under 30k total. Unless I figure in what the parts on the shelf cost me. Not much really, someone hit that car, settled, and left me with a parts car.

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[flash]

collectability is a fickle thing - there are a number of factors that go into a car becoming collectable - originality has historically been key to such a thing, though if you have watched a Barrett auction lately that is definitely changing - some of the cars that had become collectable, and were only collectable if 100% original, have now been selling for even more money when prepared in modified form - the trend is changing, and heavily modified stuff is carrying the same or higher value if done "right"

however, the cars have to be around to become collectable - that means that examples that can be torn down and restored have to be available - high mileage cars won't fit that bill - neither will ones that cannot have their parts replaced - that is where i think the M030 cars will fall very soon - the minute the parts become unavailable, those cars will no longer be supportable - there weren't enough of them to justify a rebirth of availability either

the seals on the shocks and struts go bad with time too, and there aren't many guys around who will service them - there also aren't many who relish the idea of having to leave their car on blocks for weeks while one of those rare service guys fixes their tired and worn shocks and struts

if you were shopping for a 968 and knew going in that your car could be on blocks for a month while stuff was being fixed, would you buy it? add to that the fact that the M030 suspension is well known for being bouncy and jittery, and that there is now better stuff out there in the aftermarket arena, and i think it spells the doom of the status of that car

things change - what was once desirable does not always stay that way

either way, enjoy the car now - there probably won't be gas to run them by the time any of these become collectable

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[Johannvb]

Flash, why do you think the M030 parts will not be available in the future? I know some parts become NLA, but I know from restoring my 356, that almost every part will again become available from Porsche.

The the 968 is at a weird age right now, not really a classic yet but also not so young anymore. But I think there is hope. When I ordered a new fuel line a month or so ago, it came to me in a Porsche Classic parts box, so Porsche is slowly moving the 968 under it's classic parts division. This means that parts that have been NLA will in the future become available again...that's what the classic parts catalog is all about.

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[mrayner]

Hey Langley968, let me know if the ICBC collectors status works out. I have been thinking of doing the same, however I thought that insurance on "collectors" status only permits occasional use. My 968 is a daily driver, so I think this option may not be available to me. Having the custom plates would be cool.

-Mike

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