[flash]

all this talk about the debt and such brings up the topic of taxes. obviously we have a broken tax system. the question is what to do about it. the way it is set up now, it benefits the rich, the lawyers, and the accountants, but nobody else.



for starters i propose for individuals:



eliminating charity deductions. true charity is without gain.



retain the mortgage deduction, but only on the house you live in, and only up to a mortgage of 1 million.



create a 100% deduction for all college tuition expenses for full time students in an accredited university.



create a 100% deduction for all job training tuition.



create a 100% deduction for all medical insurance premiums.



eliminate deductions for dependents.



eliminate all other personal deductions.



eliminate all deductions on income over 1 million



eliminate inheritance tax



create a tax credit for alternative energy vehicle purchase



create a stiff tax penalty for low fuel economy vehicle purchase



create a tax penalty for foreign car purchase



create a tax credit for domestic car purchase



no income tax on income below $20k, 5% on 20k - 30k, 10% on income from 30K - 50k, 15% on 50k to 100k, 20% on 100k -200k, 25% on 200k to 500k, 30% on 500k- 750k, 35% on 750k to 1 million, and 40% 1 million up.





for businesses:



eliminate tax exempt status for churches. the church has always been a business. it should be treated as such.



create tax credits for new hires.



create tax penalties for layoffs.



create tax credits for bringing jobs from overseas back here.



create tax credits for companies generating new sales markets overseas.







i'm sure i'll figure out more, but that's a pretty good start





then, to make this all work, we absolutely need a balanced budget amendment, with no exceptions. we start with whatever money we have, and figure out how to spend it, just like you and me at home. if they can't or won't do it, they don't get paid, and cannot run for re-election. we need to make the politicians responsible for fixing the problem they have created.

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[ds968]

All reasonable ideas, but you're over-thinking this - here's how to fix it with far greater simplicity : eliminate personal income tax entirely, and add a 10-15% VAT to ALL goods sold ...except food.

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[Rap]

A tax credit to hire people will never be enough of an incentive. Hiring for almost all companies is based on need. Penalties for firing people is what hampers companies in Europe. Clearly it stifles competitiveness. I agree on most of your other suggestion except for the church, and we don't agree on a lot of things. Perhaps if you could find some religion that will baptize you in a river, clean of course because of all of the EPA industry killing regulations not passed by Congress, we could make you a believer. Put your hands on the radio and feel the presence of The Lord oh non believer! Lol

Our conversations and their civility never cease to amaze me. For those of you who have no reason to know, I'm gently ribbing Flash and mean no offense by my comments.

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[94SilverCab]

[quote name='ds968' timestamp='1352351636' post='134573']

All reasonable ideas, but you're over-thinking this - here's how to fix it with far greater simplicity : eliminate personal income tax entirely, and add a 10-15% VAT to ALL goods sold ...except food.

[/quote]



+1

and medication...

and clothing

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[flash]

i would not exempt clothing, nor would i exempt restaurants. groceries maybe.



unless we included real estate and loans, i'm not sure 15% would do it with those exemptions. i tend to think it would need to be closer to 25%

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[Lear35A]

With all due respect what you have proposed is basically a "progressives" agenda (other than eliminating inheritance tax). It is not simplified, fairer or anything that could get passed.



It's really hard to answer point by point on an iPhone. Just too hard to type much.



But in general this approach is why Obama was so ineffective with Congress...even when he had both houses with Democratic majority.

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[flash]

it would not get passed only because there are entirely too many people who benefit and profit by the existing system. if we take away all of those exemptions, and tax the things we should be taxing, it would level things out, and build a broader base which would support the economy in the long term.



the budgets didn't pass because the primary focus of congress is to line their pockets and get re-elected. removing the loopholes, eliminating paid campaign advertising, eliminating lobbying, and setting term limits would fix that.



the problem is that the public does not understand economics. they don't teach that in high school. as a result, most americans are actually quite ignorant, and only know what they get spoon fed to them and dumbed down on the news or in commercials, or from listening to that idiot limbaugh. as an example, i posted the federal budgets for the last couple of years, and i am willing to bet that nobody on this site knows anybody who has read them. that's just plain ridiculous. we should all have read them. you shouldn't get to complain about something you know nothing about. we should probably have a qualification test before allowing anybody to vote. we make people take a basic test before giving them a license to drive a car, but we let any idiot cast a vote that could decide major things for generations. people should be required to understand what they are voting on. but, they don't which is why we see people voting the way they do, and exactly how we got into this mess 12 years ago. i think they misunderestimated how important this is.



rap - churches should absolutely not be tax exempt. we have what is supposed to be a clear and clean separation between church and state. we are not supposed to subsidize somebody's cult. people are free to believe what they want, and gather as they want to do that, but they should do so at their own expense, not mine. lol - we'll see how people feel when the big spaceship lands and they find out that "god" was just a zookeeper, and we're nothing more than an infestation of termites eating up the planet and crapping all over it. but that's a completely different discussion for a different day.

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[Cloud9...68]

Why not return the tax system to how it was originally designed - Have the income tax only apply to high earners? Cover the rest of the revenue needs through a national sales tax, with the appropriate system of rebates for people on the very low end of the income scale. Elimination of all business taxes would make the US a mecca for countries from around the world to do business here. Plus, it would allow business to cut the prices on the goods they produce, largely negating the impact of the sales tax on the consumer.



Just a difference of opinion here, but I'm skeptical that an elaborate system of credits and penalites could be implemented without the various special interests getting their grubby little hands all over them, leaving us in much the same mess where's in now. I vote for simple.

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[flash]

that could work too.



the only reason i suggested the credits and penalties, is that people, left to their own devices, would not volunteer to spend a dime.

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[Ryan]

Flash...you open up so many questions. What if GOD has a pest control? Look out fellow termites!!!!!

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[flash]

roflmao - anything is possible. it makes for good television either way

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[Lear35A]

No I did not read the budgets. Neither did many members of Congress. Throwing out some some garbage that the administration knows will be rejected by ALL of their own party may technically meet the obligation to submit a budget, but it is not being serious. I will not waste my time reading something that is not serious.



I would also like to suggest (based on their leader Pelosi's comment) that few Democratic congressmen read the Obamacare act before falling in line and passing it. (Neither did the Republicans I am sure, but their party wasn't presenting it.)



" people, left to their own devices, would..." That in a nutshell is the progressive view, that somehow people shouldn't be left to their own devices. This is a concept so far from the Declaration of Independence that it makes me cringe. I want a country that does allow personal choice (even if it's to own a 968). I do not accept that a government bureaucrat knows better than the man/woman who earned the money how the money should be spent. The list in post 1 is a list of things that would benefit certain special interests, in this case the special interests of the progressives. An equally troublesome list could be made of things conservatives would want in a "reformed" tax code. The ONLY way your can make the tax code simple, fair and understandable is a flat tax on final consumption (not to be confused with a VAT). NO EXCEPTIONS; NO EXEMPTIONS. If a guy wants a $10,000,000 house, he'll pay about $2 million tax. If he wants a $2 hamburger, he'll pay about $0.40. If he wants nothing, ie save and not consume, he pays nothing. There would be no income tax, no capital gains tax, no business tax. There would be no IRS, vastly fewer tax accountants and lawyers. The entire Federal tax code could be on a couple of pages. Congress would no longer have to consume all their time talking about taxes; instead it would be spent in figuring how to spend it for the betterment of the country. That could certainly include cash cards to those deemed needy; it could include loans or grants for higher education; it could include health care subsidies (even free birth control pills, yeah!!!).



The sad truth is that special interests on both sides would never give up the raw power of being able to take what they want from whom they want.

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[flash]

the reality is that people cannot be left up to their own devices. that has been proven time and again. like it or not, that's the way it is. if it weren't that way, we would not be in the mess we are.



lol - we already knew that though. that's why man invented god. he had to put somebody in charge, and give some weight to the rules by which we should live, or anarchy would prevail.

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[Rap]

Bob we do have a test for people to vote, actually two. One you must be a citizen and two you must register. If we cull the herd on all the stupid voters, who gets to decide who is stupid, my fear is we are not left with a lot of voters! Varying degrees of intelligence is what makes the world go round. I cringe with the stupidity and dumbing down we see accelerating in our society. But there has been and will always be this disparity in intellect. Flat tax and reduction in deductions is the way to go. I even suggest that we have a referendum on which deductions to eliminate. Let the people decide. After all somebody, and I still can't find anyone willing to confess, voted to re elect Obama.

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[flash]

for me it's not about intelligence but rather knowledge (and they are very different). it's also not about ideology.



all i am suggesting is that people be required to understand the things on which they are voting. this is particularly related to local bills and such. it's amazing to see how many people vote on something, without knowing what it is. we just had a couple of measures pass, that if some of the people really understood it, would have voted differently. i am constantly running into people who say things like "is that what that was? crap! i voted the other way"



as far as elected officials go, the only way we can educate the people better, is to ban commercials, and just let the candidates speak. give them the free air time. let them speak. have them in REAL debates, and lots of them. then people can decide for themselves, based on real information, and not on media hype.



but, that will likely never happen, because then the special interests would lose footing, and we might find out that the candidate put forth is really an idiot puppet. they can't have that.

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[kzem1]

I like the Fair Tax. It is a good read if anyone here has not read it. Consumpion based with some other caveats. It is not the same as a VAT. A VAT is way to easy to raise. Of course we would have to eliminate the personal income tax first. I would also support the legalization of mariquana and prostitution. That would raise some money, put the mafia out of business, and probably help drop the crime rate and clear out some of our jails. I know that may be out there, but that is my opinion.

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