[flash]

for quite some time now, i have been warning people that rubber parts, like belt snd hoses, are only scheduled to last 5 years, and should be changed at absolutely no more than 8 years



hydraulic hoses are the biggest issue



i have been warning people that, if they are stil running the original hydralic components, that it was a matter of WHEN not IF they would fail, and that they were on borrowed time - i was in this group myself, as my clutch hydraulics were original (though i had changed my brake lines already) and iintended to change them soon



well, today, while off checking the course for the weekend event, i stepped on my clutch and BAM! straight to the floor and stayed there - no warning - no symptoms



so, i get to spend tomorrow changing out the entire clutch hydraulic system



i had to call a tow truck - this would normally only be a minor inconvenience (and bad timing 2 days before a local event, and 3 weeks before parade)- however, after finally figuring out how to get my lowered car onto the flatbed (backwards) by means of using wood transition pieces, just as we were all done and ready to put the flatbed back into driving posistion, oneof the wood pieces got caught, flipped up, flipped back and whacked my fender, denting and creasing it, and shattering my headlight



PEOPLE! change this stuff out before it happens to you - the parts are cheap - get it done

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[968rz]

Sorry to hear of your misfortune flash, I hope the repairs go well.

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[flash]

the dent and headlight sucked, but the hydraulic part was not misfortune really, just inevitability - it was going to happen - the timing could have been better, but now i'll be good for another 5 years -



cursory inspection shows that it looks like it was the master or slave cylinder - hose actually looks intact

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[Anchorman]

Ouch - I feel your pain. I was thinking about doing a preventive maintenance change of the master and slave cylinders, as well as the hoses. Decided not to, but may rethink that. As you (and a well-known song) say, "It's just a matter of time..."

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[Bob Kovacs]

As I've mentioned, I just got done replacing both the high-pressure clutch hose and the slave cylinder. In fact, I did the slave cylinder on Tuesday, July 4. Of the two, the hose is much harder. By comparison, the slave cylinder is a snap -- an easy one hour repair. The key is to remove the starter, which is also easily done.



My wife thinks I was an idiot to work on my perfectly operating clutch, knock my car out of comission for a month and damage the slave cylinder in the process. The good news is that I was not stranded somewhere and needed a tow -- all this happened in my garage, on my lift. And now these parts are good for several more years. I don't feel like the idiot that my wife thinks I am...



Bummer about the damage to your car, flash. That's a real downer.



--Bob

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[RPM]

As the old Monty Python bit goes, "You were lucky..."



My clutch went to the floor alongside I-40 in rush hour traffic with the temperature over 100 and the humidity right alongside it. I about died waiting for that tow truck.



Look at it this way, you will probably find something else to fix while doing this job!

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[SILVY968]

Flash,



Sorry to hear the bad news.

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[BigL2U]

Tough break Flash, but I know you'll put it right..



As you know I just changed my cooling system hoses. I was planning to order the steel braided brake cables but I didn't think about the clutch cables. I guess I should hunt them down as well. Are there any options for steel braided clutch cables?



This sounds like a perfect opportunity for a DIY entry.. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Good luck.

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[flash]

no ready-made option for the hose yet - since i am pulling the entire assembly out, i will have a perfectly decent looking hose to take somewhere and see if i can get a bunch made up



side note - not sure if i can pull this off, but i am going to try to pull the entire assembly intact, and reinstall the same way



waiting on fedex now

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[mitch968]

side note - not sure if i can pull this off, but i am going to try to pull the entire assembly intact, and reinstall the same way

Trying to remember from when I replaced the master/slave a while back, but I think you'll get interference from the hard line section of the hose coming out of the master. Why not just disconnect the hose and remove and reinstall everything individually? You should have no problem disconnecting/reconnecting the hose with a line wrench. As I remember, the only real annoying part of the job is working under the dash with the master and I'm a complete novice. Of course I made the job worse for myself by dropping a bolt or pivot pin down inside the clutch pedal (yes, it's hollow and don't drop anything in there when connecting the master.)



Good luck.

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[flash]

my thought is, that, if i do it as a system, i can bench bleed it, and thereby avoid altogether the potential air pocket



i was under there, and it looks like i can do it - we'll see - would be a lot easier than turning those wrenches at weird angles, and having hydraulic fluid drip all over the place



good tip on the pedal - i'll stuff something down in there first



parts should be here in the next few minutes - i expect this job should only take a bit over an hour - looks awfully easy (under dash pain notwithstanding)

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[Bob Kovacs]

I agree, it's very tight at the front of the clutch master cylinder. In fact, I could not get the replacement hose to fit until I recurved the hard metal part of the hose at the point where it attaches to the master cylinder. It just needed a couple millimeters more clearance and then it went easily. Much colorful language was used up to that point. The lower end of the hose is much easier to attach and the slave cylinder is a walk on the beach by comparison.



--Bob

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[orphanowner]

Bob, that totally sucks about he dent. Your car’s paint is so nice… Who woulda thought towing the car would have been such a hassle.



As for the hydraulics, I'll chime in. I've been wrenching on these cars (944/968) for over 15 years and have seen most of the typical failures.



The clutch slave and master are notoriously failure prone. The clutch rarely gets bleed with the brake system and that fact along with the basic design promotes a lot of moisture build up. The moisture allows the cast steel cylinders to corrode, which damages the neoprene pistons, causing leaks. I just replaced a leaking clutch master cylinder on my 968. I left the slave cylinder, since it was replaced when I did the clutch. My 968 has had the entire system bleed at least yearly since new, so go figure.



Check for clutch master cylinder leakage at the accordion boot. Most of these leak for a long time before they actually fail and the carpet will absorb the fluid so the leakage is less obvious. My experience with clutch hoses on both the 968 and 944 cars has been good. These along with the brake hoses seem to last a long time. Long time: meaning 15 years or so. The 944 Turbo clutch hose is another story and due to the heat of the turbo, these fail in 5-7 years.



A few pointers on replacing the clutch hydraulic parts:



•The clutch master cylinder pedal parts can be somewhat easily accessed by removing the fuse sub panel and the plastic shield that is secured with two plastic 10 mm nuts. This GREATLY improves access and reduces the time spent under the dash. First disconnect the battery so you don’t short the fuse panel on any of the grounded flanges. Just remove the fuse box lid, and unscrew the thumbscrews that retain the fuse and relay panel. This can be lifted out and turned about a ¼ turn and left on the edges of the fuse box lid flange. This process will be easier to understand once you get the fuse panel unscrewed.



•After the repair, If you raise the rear of the car only, leaving the front wheels on the ground, it will be immensely easier to bleed the clutch. This works on all 944/968 series cars.



I don’t think it’s possible to install the clutch hydraulics in one piece. I also think it will be difficult to bench bleed the assembly because the slave cylinder will need to be retracted manually after every bleeding cycle. It’s easy enough to do on the car.



Good luck!

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[flash]

all done!



yes, i also dicovered that moving that plastic cover out of the way helped a lot



no, i was not able to do it intact - the hard line was going ot be more trouble than it was worth - i just disconected the source tube, and then let it dlrain out - no mess



i replaced all 3 components - i'm not one to take those kinds of shortcuts - way too many years dealing with british hydraulics



i did have a wet bellows



the high pressure hose had a huge goiter in it, and was ready to blow



complete job time, including jacking it up on 4 stands and getting it back down - just under 2 hours! very simple job really



everybody should be calling paragon about now and ordering their new parts, if they haven't already changed them - do not let this happen to you



i'm off now to replace the headlight and clean car up a bit for tomorrow

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[Anchorman]

WOW - c'mon east again, and you can spend a few hours with my car!

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[Renalicious]

When I got my car towed from the track, they didn't send a flatbed, but a regular tow truck , but towing the car with all 4 wheels off the ground.. The guy (who was actually very helpfull) said that it's far easier to tow sports cars this way. Not only is it less hastle to load / unload, but it prevents situations like the one that happened to Flash as you don't need to load the car onto a steep incline. I've also seen my friend's MX-6 front bumper really damaged because of a flatbed truck.



I suppose flatbed trailers are ok, since they're low to the ground, and you could drive onto it. Otherwise it's probably better to get the 4-wheel-off-the-ground towing solution. I know it's what I'll do if I ever need to tow my car in the future.

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[flash]

yup - he said the same thing, but that it was going to be too much hassle to go back and get the dolly rig



they are paying for the damage



live and learn

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