[968CS_HKG]

Wanted to buy New / Used Kokeln Rear Suspension Kit for 968, anyone could help?



http://www.kokeln.com/rear_suspension_kit.php

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[Dubai944]

You could fabricate something similar yourself, the main advantage is convenience of seperating toe and camber adjustments and some higher control arm mount points to correct roll centres when lowered. Claimed to be 25lbs lighter but you can reduce the weight of your existing setup a fair bit by removing the torsion bars.



Unless you are building a no compromise all out track car, competing for cash I wouldn't bother. Hard to find and way overpriced for what it is and honestly I doubt you would notice the difference over a well set up standard rear end.

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[Cloud9...68]

Yeah, I'd always wondered what the purpose of this piece was - I don't see that it offers any advantage over the stock torsion bar mount, especially for the price. And the fact that it's a little lighter doesn't seem to be much of an advantage, either, since there are already so many other things you can do to take weight off the rear - removing weight from the front is the real challenge.

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[flash]

actually, you don't end up losing much with the standard torsion delete, because the springs and such that you have to add just about wash that out. been there done that.



the kolkeln setup does have some advantages, but it also gets a LOT more complicated to tune the rear suspension, and makes a fair amount of noise for a street car. you do lose some weight though, and every little bit helps.



fairly academic though, since they don't make them anymore.

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[Dubai944]

Weight wise your only comparing carrier to carrier, you need springs and shocks with the kokeln setup too, no? I guess the spring plates they used where a bit ligher than stock as well but can't be by much. Would the kokeln carrier really weigh 25 lbs less than an empty standard carrier? Seems doubtful to me but maybe I guess.



Can't see why it would be any more complicated to setup. You only have camber and toe adjustment to play with in either case and toe adjustment woul be easier with the threaded rod end and less impact on camber. Is anything else adjustable on the Kokeln carrier?



I think it was a nice piece, but the price I was given a few years back was around $2500. If so it was way overpriced for what it was.

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[DaveN]

The @ss end in my car is already too light, can't imagine wanting it lighter anyway. The front is the challenge.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='DaveN' timestamp='1324489115' post='119422']

The @ss end in my car is already too light, can't imagine wanting it lighter anyway. The front is the challenge.

[/quote]

Yep.

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[flash]

the oem tube is steel, with heavy center and end units, and the kolkeln setup is aluminum.



yes, you need springs with the kolkeln too. i was saying that in exchange for the torsion bars, you get coil springs, hats, offset mounts, yada yada, and by the time you are done, you don't lose much weight in a standard torsion delete. i think it was about 5lbs. been there done that.



dave - the ass of the stock hardtop model is 66lbs heavier than the front. what have you taken out to lighten it up? is the car oversteering on you, making you think it's light?

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[Cloud9...68]

Flash,



Good points.



Hoo-boy - I feel a major thread hijack coming on, but your comment that lightening the rear end potentially leading to oversteer raises a question that has always baffled me. I though cars that were tail-heavy, like the 911 and the Corvair, were more prone to oversteer, while nose-heavy muscle cars were notorious for understeer. But to cloud the picture infinitely more, pick-up trucks, which tend to be very tail-light, also tend to oversteer! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/blink.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wacko.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> Can there possibly be a "grand unifying theory" for these apparent contradictions?



To make it simple, let's say you take a well-balanced car, like, say, oh, maybe a 968, and did some fast laps around a twisty, technical track, and noted the degree of under/oversteer upon throttle application, and upon throttle lift. Then, dump 200 lb of lead in the trunk, repeat, and finally, somehow put the same hunk of weight under the hood. Assume the springs are stiff enough that this wouldn't appreciably change the ride height. What would be the effect in terms of under/oversteer, and why? Is the response of a shift in weight distribution different under application of throttle, vs. lift? Thanks.



I've heard so many different hand-waving explanations of these effects that I've come to the conclusion that anything can make a car under/oversteer, no matter how apparently contradictory. Hoping to see some light shed on this baffling topic. Again, sorry for the hijack, but I think we've come to the conclusion that the Kokeln unit is NLA, anyway.



Oh, and i'd be happy to start a new thread on this topic, either under Racing, or something in the suspension category.

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[968CS_HKG]

Thanks for the input guys. The city that I am in now "Hong Kong" doesn't have many professionals that have the knowledge of playing and setting up that torsion bar, which is why I am heading toward a T-Bar delete setup. I thought the Kokeln item would make setting up the geometry a little easier than what the factory has to offer. Truly in my heart, I would like to keep the torsion bar, the spirit of the 968. But with the lack of a skilled mechanic to help, I am looking at a set of Intrax RSA setup fo T-Bar delete option.

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[flash]

i would be happy to discuss weight effects on handling, but rather than get off track of the kolkeln topic, we should do that in a separate thread.



i was only asking dave about weight, because i suspect there is something else leading to the impression that the rear is light, as it's pretty hard to get more than about 60lbs out of the rear, which would actually then balance the car.

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[Cloud9...68]

Fair enough; a very reasonable suggestion. I'd did a little research on the topic last night, and it reminded me of just how complex of a subject it is. And the fact that so many so-called experts, who really don't understand the subject, so often throw their uninformed opinions into the fray makes it even more confusing to those of us who'd really like to understand the mechanics of what's going on. I'll do a little more research, and then start a new thread.

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[DaveN]

Combo of no spare tire, back seat delete, more power, no <acronym title='Limited Slip Differential'>LSD</acronym> and hard rubber (Toyo Proxes 4) gives the impression of too much weight up front. Yes, oversteer everywhere, I have my own drifting car <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> Maybe I should keep the tank full all the time until I get new rubber and <acronym title='Limited Slip Differential'>LSD</acronym>.

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[Cloud9...68]

I had the same snap oversteer problem with my car (I would have sworn there was a vat of oil above the rear tires that spilled some on the ground every time I so much as nudged the throttle if the wheels weren't pointed perfectly straight ahead <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> ) until I replaced the tires. I had a set of Kumho Ecsta's that must have been made on a Monday or a Friday, because they were horrible, and I have a Guard <acronym title='Limited Slip Differential'>LSD</acronym>! Once I replaced the tires, the problem went away completely.

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[flash]

let's put this in a new thread please

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