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contemplating hydrogen car
#1

i've been looking at the new hyundai tuscon hydrogen car. really been thinking about an HOV lane commuter car with a minimum range of 150 miles. not a lot of choices.



hydrogen is popping up all over the place here. this one might make sense. need to look at the car itself, but the range is great, the cost is very manageable, and the limitations seem manageable as well.



also looking at other electric cars, but hydrogen does seem to be up and coming.



https://www.hyundaiusa.com/tucsonfuelcell/



http://www.cafcp.org/stationmap
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



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#2

I like this idea better than storage battery powered electric vehicles. These are much more environmentally sound. As I have mentioned before, in other alternative fuel discussions we have had on this forum, the ability to distribute the fuel through an existing infrastructure makes the most sense. Conventional gasoline stations offer the ability to provide a distribution network. Now if the oil companies don't want to get into the business of distributing hydrogen, no problem, there are more than enough closed gas stations that are no longer owned by the major oil companies that could be acquired and converted to hydrogen distribution.



I'm surprised that these vehicles are only being offered in SoCal at this time. According the fuel station map there appear to be nearly as many fueling stations in NorCal.
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#3

they can be more environmentally sound, depending on how the hydrogen is accumulated, transported, and stored. i am also concerned about what a lot of water vapor might do to the atmosphere. on the surface it may not seem like a concern, but neither did burning fossil fuels. now we know differently. i'd like to see some science on the potential effects.



there have been and are other hydrogen powered vehicles, and they have been available in norcal. this one is merely being released here first. this is likely due to hyundai being right here in town.
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



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#4

The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is at equilibrium. Water vapor does not persist in the atmosphere like CO2 does, it quickly returns to the earth as rainfall. The amount of water vapor that the atmosphere can hold is a function of temperature. As the atmosphere warms from CO2 emissions the capacity of the atmosphere to retain water is also increased.



Based on the foregoing, the emissions from hydrogen powered vehicles do not contribute directly to global warming, but global warming does permit the atmosphere to retain more water in a vapor state. I don't know whether that is a good or bad thing. I suspect we'd benefit from an increase in rainfall here in the arid west, but you'd have to have a boatload of hydrogen power vehicles to cause that to happen. I think that if hydrogen cell powered vehicles replaced a significant number of cars fueled by other types of fuel: fossil, gasoline/electric hybrids and electric vehicles that must be recharged from a CO2 generating source, the effect might be a reduction of CO2 emissions.
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#5

yes, but will it result in increased rainfall? will that adversely affect ecosystems? for example, we have now found out that the wind farms can screw up ecosystems and weather to a degree. i agree that hydrogen might be a very good thing. i would just like to see some more science to similarly determine the effects of its use.



but, i'm excited that these kinds of things are being developed in large scale. some will work. some won't. eventually we will get something other than fossil fuels.
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#6

doesn't Ca. need more rainfall? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/clap.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#7

sure. obviously if the emission could be contained locally, it could be a good thing. however, if it resulted in areas already too wet, it could be bad.



as i said, more science needed.



still - a great potential
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#8

One thing I learned about Hydrogen production is that the most effective way to produce it is to "Crack" natural gas.



"the current leading technology for producing hydrogen in large quantities,[sup][4][/sup]extracts the hydrogen from methane. However, this reaction causes a side production of carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide, which are greenhouse gases and contribute to global warming.[sup][1]"[/sup]



In order to make this a truly "Green" process there needs to be a huge advancement in reforming hydrogen from wind, solar, etc. So far, this is not baked. It only removes the greenhouse gasses from where you're burning them to where they're produced.



Honda is/was offering a hydrogen car that will come with a home hydrogen generator that will produce enough energy for your home and automobile. Not sure what stage they are in, but they have been testing it in Southern California for a while.



If you were to distribute these new autos to every driver in the US it would take years to make back the embodied energy used to produce them. Look up Net Zero Energy, it is mind boggling how hard it is to achieve. I have volunteered to work on a Net Zero Energy project in Philadelphia, there are very few buildings that can make the claim and they are mostly welcome stations in national parks, etc. In order to actually achieve Net Zero, you almost always have to buy carbon credits, and honestly, to me, that's cheating.



Jay
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#9

Just win baby!
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#10

Flash, do you really think you will enjoy driving it? I mean will it be a gas man! Sorry couldn't help myself...again.



Andy
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#11

Google the Flatula Backfire. it truly is the solution we have all been looking for.
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#12

I did some work about 4 years ago concerning renewable energy sources. My consensus would was not to bet on hydrogen cars, but electric cars. One reason was distribution, I still don't understand the distribution system for hydrogen to the consumer. It already exists for electric cars. And at that time, in-the-car storage was a nightmare, heavy metal tanks - there were a lot of ideas, using advanced materials, perhaps they solved that a bit by now. But I have read in the last few months that some car companies are coming out with hydrogen cars. Maybe the recharge time for electrics makes hydrogen attractive, since I assume it is like filling up with gasoline.



My wife picked this one last July: Ford Fusion Energi. It is a plug-in hybrid, we get 20 miles on a charge and then the engine kicks in after that to turn the generator. Even without charging, we are getting 50 mpg in a fairly large and heavy car - one reason of course is power recovery from braking. I was skeptical, but it seems to be going well. I ran the numbers, we can recharge at home for 20% less than the cost of gasoline (more like 30% less overnight, maybe 10% less if charge during the day). So when it comes home, it gets plugged in every time -- just saving money. Compared to the ancient Jeep Liberty she was driving, maybe 16 mpg, we get a brand new car for very, very little extra money simply in fuel cost savings.
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#13

Here is an article of FCEV cars from Wired yesterday:

http://www.wired.com...ice-mediocrity/
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#14

Stick with electric ; I see battery leasing programs as the next big thing in that domain. If that takes off, I want royalties from Tesla for coming up with the idea - just so it's on the record now <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#15

drove alongside 2 hydrogen powered prototype cars yesterday. wrapped for disguise. water and steam coming out of the tailpipes gave it away. interesting.



   
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#16

Nice tarmac!
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#17

Check out THIS electric car ! Oh man, talk about wishing being a kid again , and unbelievable that it's also less than $ 1,000 !

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/electric-su...15065.html

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#18

They could probably market this in the Philipines to sell to the general population. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.png" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#19

Now that's funny !!
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