[Rap]

Anyone ever use, own or know anything about simulators as a learning tool?

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[Cloud9...68]

A guy who I met when I started doing DEs swore by them, but he was a real natural anyway, so I'm not sure I'm convinced they are what was responsible for his excellent driving (he definitely left me in the dust - he had a 993). I see a couple of problems. First, like so many things, they're a very slippery slope. It boggles the mind how elaborate you can get, and how much you can spend, to get ever closer to matching the actual driving experience, with a chassis, large screen monitor or a projector, a very high end computer, and of course the pedal/steering wheel assembly. The other, bigger issue I see is that one thing you can't simulate, at least for anything resembling an affordable setup, is the g-forces you experience on the track. That's a very key element to leave out.



To me, a simulator would definitely be fun, and if I had infinite funds, and the space to put one, I would probably build one, but in reality, I think their main usefulness is in helping you learn a track you haven't driven on before, because I think a lot of the major tracks now have simulation software.

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[craigawoodman]

I was just looking at this type of set-up and a good one costs around $6k over here. That is the base, seat, screen, computer, wheel and pedals, etc - essentially, plug and play. You can link them up and play against each other as well. As for how well they work, as above, you cannot replicate the g-forces, etc, but you can try different lines, etc. The accuracy only depends on the program you are using. For learning different tracks prior to getting there, they are a great tool.



Over here as well, there are set-ups in the shopping centre where you can simply pay for time to drive. THese set-up's actually move and make you a bit motion sick.



So, for basic learning of a track - great. For serious set-up, etc not of great benefit.



I tried the racing simulator at a shopping centre and used a track I know - Bathurst and after a couple of laps I managed a 2:06 lap-time which is equivalent to the record qualifying pace, so realistic, not really (I know I am not that good in real life).



It was good fun however.

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[tamathumper]

We had them in a shopping center here - (I was surprised to find out they ran Linux for the whole thing...). Basically leagues, with six Nascar shells which could race against each other and other setups across the country. Three big projection screens in front and a real feeling of disorientation for about two hours afterwards, which I never felt when driving for real at Skip Barber Racing School all day.

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[Rap]

My thought was to learn new courses. I'm not a gamer so it has no interest to me from that perspective. YouTube just doesn't cut it for me. Useful as opposed to nothing but not quite it. 6000 grand yikes!

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[flash]

hmmm - $6k to learn some tracks. how many times could i actually GO to the track for that money, and what else would i gain beyond what a simulator could do for that same money?



anybody else see the flaw in the concept?

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[JWahlsten]

If you plan on using for entertainment purposes instead of going to the track and save the money you would have used on consumables, I can see some value in it. However, if you're substituting it for actual practice, there is just too much missing. I have a pretty cool wheel (Fanatec) and like to play driving games. I've used it to learn the way around VIR, but never really constituted it as practice. There is just too much missing from the equation. You can't tell the camber of the track, where the grip changes, subtle bumps, and I've found that elevation changes are harder to judge. The simulations like i-Racing are really good, but nothing beats the real thing.



Would I pay anywhere near 6k? Heck no. However, my laptop hooked into my regular TV with the driving stand I got works pretty sweet. I like the PS3 even better, but the tracks available are certainly more limited. I've thought about making a chassis for my spare seats (don't we all have those?), but the project hasn't gotten to the top of the list yet having just moved. YMMV

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[Rap]

And this of course is why I ask these questions!

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[DaveN]

If you just want to learn the course then buy a PS3 or (gag) an Xbox or PC. All the top games claim to duplicate many real tracks right down to the pebble. Then you can use it later to stream media around the house when you're done.

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[GRBoomer]

I like a game/simulator called GTR2 by Simbin. Getting old now (2008) but you can get and play it from Steam. There is a 944 mod that can be loaded. Many US tracks have also been added by he Mod community. I remember driving Road America because it was the next state over from me, but many others are available too.



It will not substitute for the real thing, but the physics in the game are pretty good. You actually have to learn to use a brake pedal, balance and other driving aspects not needed in most games out there. Just getting through the tutorial takes a lot of time as they teach you how to break, fund the corner apex, etc/



New version (GTR3) is supposed to be out in 2013 but they have been saying that for 2 years.

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[craigawoodman]

Flash,



I just re-read your reply to my post. For me to get to Bathurst from Perth is $1,500 in fuel each way, plus accommodation there and for the drive (another $1,000), plus tyres, fuel, etc whe you are there. The cost of running on the track another $1,000 for five runs over three days. So learning the track prior to getting there has some merit.



Same for people who live in Australia and go to Germany to do the Nurburgring. At least if you have an inkling of where the track goes, it is better than turning up completely ignorant.



There are much cheaper options than the one quoted, but the one quoted included seat, pedals, steering wheel , etc. I have found that anything that at least shows you which way the track goes is a help. No, it does not replace the real thing, but it makes the first day of practice much more effective (and reduces the chance of finding a wall or spinning into a trap).



Over here, it is also very hard to get track time on some of the better tracks. Bathurst only happens once per year for us. Phillip Island is pretty much once per year for the Porsche club of Victoria (and on my bucket list), etc. so a anything g to assist the learning process prior to getting there and having first hand knowledge of the track, has to help.

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[flash]

ouch. that'll put a dent in your wallet. definitely makes sense to learn the track any way you can before going.

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[marco]

I used this one for a while just for fun : http://www.rfactor.net/



Combined with a wheel and pedals and a playseat (http://www.playseat.com/). Now using the playseat on my xbox, But rfactor was quiet realistic.

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[GRBoomer]

GTR2 has a 968 modeled.

You can get it on Steam.



http://www.nogriprac...hp?filenr=28978

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[flash]

how cool is it that erik got his car there? i wonder what royalties he gets?

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