[rhudeboye]

Stopping at the pump almost twice a week is really adding up. So I'm thinking of getting a cheap little commuter to haul me 60 miles a day. Looking to pay about $4K. Manual tranny / AC and in good condition are all I ask.



From what I’ve observed a Miata brings me the most bang for my buck as its pretty fun to drive and is on par w/ civics when it comes to MPG. Does anything else come to mind?

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[flash]

just for giggles, do some math - figure in the cost of the car - calculate the annual expense on fuel for the existing car - calculate the annual expense on the new car - you may find that it will take a LOT longer than you think to realize the savings



as an example:



SUV that you own outright, getting 15mpg driving 12000 miles per year, at $4.00/gal equates to $3200/year in fuel, or $266/mo



new car that gets 40mpg, but costs 25k to buy, (full finance at 7% over 48 months) with the same mileage usage and fuel cost, equates to $1200/ year or 100/month in fuel, but leaves you in the hole for the first few years by about $432/mo because of the payment



it will then take you another 10.38 years to break even on the fuel cost



i'm keeping my gas guzzling SUV

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[rhudeboye]

Agreed. I approached it this way when getting my wifes car as we looked at Camry hybrids. Toyota wasn't budging on price so we took a closer look, via calculator, as to the savings. It was about 7.5 years before savings actually started. Just not worth it, the car would've prob been on ebay by then.



However this situation is quite different. Im doing almost 20K a yr on my truck with an avg of 16mpg. 1250 gallons of gas is 5grand a yr.



Miata would cut it in half saving 2500, if I get this one http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/c...55417.html then it pays for itself in 2 years, I'm making fewer stops at the pump, parking is easier and I got a new toy.

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[PorscheDude]

How about a 944 N/A? I drove one for a couple years. Makes a pretty good commuter, and you know all the problem areas.

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[flash]

even on a 91 miata, don't forget to factor in repairs, which are covered in a new car - that's pretty old - may only be a few hundred a year, but still needs to be calculated in - that will delay the break even point - will you keep the car that long?



something else i did not factor in was insurance - it sounds like you are talking about adding another car, not substituting one for another - that means more insurance cost - gotta factor that in too



it all adds up - lol - but, sometimes it doesn't

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[Lord_Galva]

I find that just changing driving habbits is wayyy eaiser than buying a whole new car.

Then there is the obvious stuff like weight savings.

ie: CLEAN YOUR CAR

I'm always amazed at the crap some people are lugging around.

Its espicially bad if you have kids but that can't be helped.

When ever I came home from work I would do a quick check for garbage.

Keeps your car lookin clean and your weight down. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='smokiemon968' post='54356' date='Jun 9 2008, 11:50 AM']How about a 944 N/A?[/quote]



repair cost makes this a no no.



[quote name='flash' post='54358' date='Jun 9 2008, 11:58 AM']even on a 91 miata, don't forget to factor in repairs, which are covered in a new car - that's pretty old - may only be a few hundred a year, but still needs to be calculated in - that will delay the break even point - will you keep the car that long?



something else i did not factor in was insurance - it sounds like you are talking about adding another car, not substituting one for another - that means more insurance cost - gotta factor that in too[/quote]

Yes adding a car w/ bare minimum coverage. It does factor in though.



[quote name='Lord_Galva' post='54362' date='Jun 9 2008, 12:48 PM']I find that just changing driving habbits is wayyy eaiser than buying a whole new car.

Then there is the obvious stuff like weight savings.

ie: CLEAN YOUR CAR

I'm always amazed at the crap some people are lugging around.

Its espicially bad if you have kids but that can't be helped.

When ever I came home from work I would do a quick check for garbage.

Keeps your car lookin clean and your weight down. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />[/quote]



my cars stay pretty clean inside out. As for driving habits, I don't drive the SUV w/ a heavy foot as its just doesn't respond. So going easier on the throttle prob will make minimum diff.

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[Cloud9...68]

There's an old saying, "The cheapest car in the world is the one you're driving today." Kind of sad, but true. It's pretty difficult to save money when the first step is the purchase of a new car. Unfortunately, it's the situation a lot of people are in today.

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[flash]

we're actually thinking about getting a couple of motorcycles - wanted them anyway

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='Cloud9...68' post='54402' date='Jun 9 2008, 06:18 PM']There's an old saying, "The cheapest car in the world is the one you're driving today." Kind of sad, but true. It's pretty difficult to save money when the first step is the purchase of a new car. Unfortunately, it's the situation a lot of people are in today.[/quote]



although I see the logic in that statement, I don't necessarily agree it. It depends largly on the age and reliability of the car. If I trade my 968 for say 10K and get an accord 02 for 10K. I bet the Accord will be cheaper 5 years down the road. However I'm talking about adding a car to which your point makes a stronger statement. I do appreciate all of the different perspectives. Also noticed no ones naming cars <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/dry.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Lord_Galva]

[quote name='rhudeboye' post='54437' date='Jun 9 2008, 08:22 PM']although I see the logic in that statement, I don't necessarily agree it. It depends largly on the age and reliability of the car.[/quote]



Ummm.

I don't know if you've heard of them but they are called "Porsche's"

Apparently they are very reliable.

If you get the 4 cylinder one's I heard you can get great fuel economy.



In all seriousness take the chip out, shift at 3k, put 87 in there, and for goodness sake don't make unessesary repairs. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Oh and don't "Drive it like you stole it!"

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='Lord_Galva' post='54449' date='Jun 10 2008, 12:37 AM']Ummm.

I don't know if you've heard of them but they are called "Porsche's"

Apparently they are very reliable.

If you get the 4 cylinder one's I heard you can get great fuel economy.



In all seriousness take the chip out, shift at 3k, put 87 in there, and for goodness sake don't make unessesary repairs. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Oh and don't "Drive it like you stole it!"[/quote]



<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Porsche vs Honda on cost effectiveness is a ridiculous comparison. Call it hyperbole to make my point.

As for your don't do list. I cant do any of them. I haven't installed the chip, I don't make unnecessary repairs (Not actually sure what one is) and the car just begs for high RPMs so who am I to disappoint it. When cruising in 6 an I get a open lane, best believe I'm dropping into 4th and redlining into 5th. Actually i can put it in N and cost a good 4 miles after that, so I guess I save a little gas in that sense. Not to mention the joker like grin on my face after a quick dash.

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[PorscheDude]

A 944 can be bought and maintained very cheaply. The used parts market is flooded with cheap parts. Maintenance is very cheap.

I sold my 87' with 210K miles and it runs better than most 10 year old cars. I see the guy I sold it to regularly, and he posts on other forums. He is very happy with it and is still driving it everyday.



Or you could join these guys on the honda forum.



Please read the post it is very funny.

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showth...hp?t=18503

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showth...hp?t=18697

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[rxter]

Am I the only bean counter here?



Lets do the math for this scenario.



60 miles/day X 5 days/wk X 48 wks per year = 14,400 miles



SUV - a generous 16 MPG estimate = 900 gallons X $4.5/gallon = $4050 annual fuel cost (at today's price of course)



Miata - 26 MPG (this is a great site to check out MPG http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ ) 553 gallons = $2492



Difference = $1557



We'll assume that you get a cherry and spend $400 annual maint (fluids, filters, and amortization over a 3 year period for the rubber that wears out).



We'll also assume that you can do a good deal on insurance, that your record is clean and that you don't have any sub-25 yr-old males in the house. $600 per year - you can reduce your truck's mileage and get another $100 savings - call it $500 even.



Year 1



Buy the car - $3,000

Registration, defered maintenance, sales tax, and other annoyances - $500

Insurance - $500

Fuel Savings - ($1557)



Net Year 1 - $2443 out of pocket



Year 2



Registration, maintenance - $500

Insurance - $500

Fuel Savings - ($1557)



Net Year 2 - ($443)

Net Year 1 + Year 2 = $2000



Year 3





Registration, maintenance - $500

Insurance - $500

Fuel Savings - ($1557)





Net Year 3 - ($443)

Net Year 1 + Year 2 + Year 3 = $1557



BE comes along in Year 6 - will the Miata still be around? To make something like this work you have to sell vehicle 1. If you really like your first ride the math makes the decision pretty easy actually.



I might have stumbled on the solution.



   

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[Darryl]

[quote name='smokiemon968' post='54492' date='Jun 10 2008, 03:47 PM']A 944 can be bought and maintained very cheaply. The used parts market is flooded with cheap parts. Maintenance is very cheap.[/quote]





I'm afraid I'm in the 944 NA camp as well...they can be had fairly cheap, especially if you're not crazy picky and can spruce it up along the way, I get roughly 24 MPG back and forth to work which is 50/50 city/highway including some stop and go every now and then, I drive it somewhat aggressively but can't get too nuts due to a touchy 1st/2nd gear synchro, but still shift at 4K or so in all gears, I've had little to no maintenance other than oil and a few belts just 'cause it was time. I got it in excellent mechanical condition, but again, as with any used car, that's going to be hit or miss as we all know. I've got about $1600 TOTAL in this car over the last two years...not near as much fun as the 968, but you still get to drive a Porsche.



The Miata would be good...they're fun and get decent MPG and easy to maintain, but a nice one, especially with low miles, will cost a little more up front. Look for an older model BMW 3 series. I just sold one for a lady after cleaning it up, replacing a few items and such. It had 148K on the clock and I got 4200.00 for it. More than she thought she'd get! To get into a cheap purchase, you may end up with a high mileage car so I'd stick with BMW, Porsche, or Mercedes as these engines routinely can hit the quarter mil mark on the odometer.



I know lots of previous posters have "done the math" and it's all accurate and thorough, but all things considered, you also need to ask yourself, "How long do I plan to keep this economical commuter?" If it's a long enough amount of time, then you'll have to bite the bullet and wait out the break even point until you start saving any money. If not, get a beater than runs good, pay cash for it, and take a portion of the immediate savings that you'll realize and put it towards something a little nicer down the road. Take care of the beater and you could probably sell it for close what you pay for it, so long as it's not a Civic or a Neon!



Just my immediate thoughts...it's always fun to spend other peoples money!



- Darryl

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[rxter]

[quote name='Darryl' post='54523' date='Jun 10 2008, 03:41 PM']Look for an older model BMW 3 series. I just sold one for a lady after cleaning it up, replacing a few items and such. It had 148K on the clock and I got 4200.00 for it. More than she thought she'd get! To get into a cheap purchase, you may end up with a high mileage car so I'd stick with BMW, Porsche, or Mercedes as these engines routinely can hit the quarter mil mark on the odometer.[/quote]



I had a 92 325i with 130K. Bought it as a commuter beater (was an auto and the manual was driving me nuts in the winter traffic). Anyway, those little buggers pull strong, but you have to do a thorough inspection on the suspension and steering gear at that age. MPG was nothing to write home about - 20 in mixed driving if I behaved myself.



   



Finally resold it a few months later because it just drove like a bucket of bolts.

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[kodomokid]

How about either an 86 GTI or 86 Scirocco 8v 1.8L? The 8v is pretty reliable and has enough performance to have a little fun. Plus parts are pretty plentiful still, and fairly easy to do maintenance yourself. Does 23 and 29mpg with a combined for 25mpg. Not too bad. i have been looking at some and I have seen decent ones between $1K to $4K depending on how many miles. These cars can go 200K plus. Some have even seen 300K with out a rebuild.



http://baltimore.craigslist.org/car/711036499.html

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[S_Cal968]

There was an article out not long ago that mentioned how the economy cars of the 90's and later are gaining popularity and going up in value. Now-a-days it seems it's more PC to be seen in a hybrid or econ-box then in a gas-sucking behemoth.



Yep, I was also considering a motorcycle to off-set my fuel consumption. Fortunately the 68 gets fairly good mpg for a car with power and lot'sa fun factor.

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='Darryl' post='54523' date='Jun 10 2008, 04:41 PM']I'm afraid I'm in the 944 NA camp as well...they can be had fairly cheap, especially if you're not crazy picky and can spruce it up along the way, I get roughly 24 MPG back and forth to work which is 50/50 city/highway including some stop and go every now and then, I drive it somewhat aggressively but can't get too nuts due to a touchy 1st/2nd gear synchro, but still shift at 4K or so in all gears, I've had little to no maintenance other than oil and a few belts just 'cause it was time. I got it in excellent mechanical condition, but again, as with any used car, that's going to be hit or miss as we all know. I've got about $1600 TOTAL in this car over the last two years...not near as much fun as the 968, but you still get to drive a Porsche.



The Miata would be good...they're fun and get decent MPG and easy to maintain, but a nice one, especially with low miles, will cost a little more up front. Look for an older model BMW 3 series. I just sold one for a lady after cleaning it up, replacing a few items and such. It had 148K on the clock and I got 4200.00 for it. More than she thought she'd get! To get into a cheap purchase, you may end up with a high mileage car so I'd stick with BMW, Porsche, or Mercedes as these engines routinely can hit the quarter mil mark on the odometer.



I know lots of previous posters have "done the math" and it's all accurate and thorough, but all things considered, you also need to ask yourself, "How long do I plan to keep this economical commuter?" If it's a long enough amount of time, then you'll have to bite the bullet and wait out the break even point until you start saving any money. If not, get a beater than runs good, pay cash for it, and take a portion of the immediate savings that you'll realize and put it towards something a little nicer down the road. Take care of the beater and you could probably sell it for close what you pay for it, so long as it's not a Civic or a Neon!



Just my immediate thoughts...it's always fun to spend other peoples money!



- Darryl[/quote]



So many good points I'm quoting your entire post.

Your last statements really reflect my mindset. I don't plan on holding it for a long time and I've noticed, even on old Civics, that resale is on par within 3 years. Meaning if I buy a 97 in 08 and sell it in 2010 adding 60K miles to it I'm getting a lot of that money back.



Many Toyota's and Honda's go past that 250 mark as well. I personally know of a 87 accord 5 speed that has 315 on it and runs remarkably well and is actually very fun to drive. The maintenance on Japanese is significantly lower then German models but the VW,BMWs and Porshes have a better feel.



Most of the math done previously doesn't take into account the mileage I posted that I'm doing. I don't just go to and from work.



Thanks for all the input. and Darryl I gotta PM you again about those scratches. Bee so freakin busy this month.

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[PorscheDude]

I had a 89' 325i when I lived in LA, it was a great commuter.

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