[flash]

this comes on much more smoothly and earlier than a turbo ever would. for a street car, this is MUCH better.



for a track car, i might have thought about it, but the other issues that a turbo presents would have made it silly. besides, i don't happen to think the 968 is a good platform for a track car to begin with, so i really would have been polishing a turd. yes, i realize that many people will disagree with me, but i am not one to think that ANY street car turned into a race car is a good idea. even though i was also running production class stuff, i didn't think so when i was racing, and i don't think so now. i made the mistake of doing it, and won't repeat that mistake. i started out like many, trying to make a dual purpose car, and then went farther into a race car. it was throwing good money after bad. i should have gone straight to formula. my position is start by building a frame, and then build the car around it, designing it as a race car from the start. that's why, if i ever go racing again, it will be open wheel. cheaper, faster, none of the problems and limitations inherent with a street car.



but that is a philosophical discussion, WAY off topic.



this kit should do a nice job of providing those who want to take the 968 onto the track, the ability to tune for the more power, as they dictate

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[Cloud9...68]

To stay off topic for just a moment longer, to me, the ultimate form of amateur racing would be competing in the Barber formula series, where they provide identically prepared single seat formula cars, and you just show up and drive. Strictly a test of driver's skill. If I ever have the money, which will be long after the kids are gone, this is what I'll be doing in my golden years. But on the other hand, for a lot of people, preparing the car, no matter what type, is half the fun, so I can see the attraction of that as well.



I hear what you're saying about converting a street car to a track car, but it just comes down to convenience and economics, as long as you stop as some sane point. Not many people have the resources and knowledge to design and build a formula car from scratch. So for many, your "hardware only" SC kit sounds like just the ticket. Once I feel the need for more power after bringing my skill level up the the coming enhanced capabilities of my car, chassis-wise, I could see it being a good solution for me as well.

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[flash]

i completely understand the process and reasoning. having driven formula stuff though, i could never go back. any car i get into just feels too heavy, bloated and slow by comparison.



a fully set up smaller formula car, on a trailer, with log book, can be had for about $30k. it does mean that all has to be in one lump though, which is why many don't do it.



back on topic, i agree about this kit and its appeal. that's exactly why i decided to offer it. just because i wouldn't do it doesn't mean that others wouldn't. i get that and don't have a problem with it

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[craigawoodman]

Cloud - Interesting question that you pose regarding supercharging the car versus turbo. In hindsight from a purely economic point of view I would have been better off simply buying a turbo engine from Powerhaus or someone else (if you include the cost of rebuilding the engine over here). But personally, I get the s***s with people who simply throw money at a problem in order to win, or chase more and more power because they can't drive.



By going down the turbo route - the car would have been more of a Turbo RS replica - so somewhat more authentic, but I still don't see it as a good track car.



As much as the frustration of having to constantly tinker is there, getting it to work is also part of the satisfaction. As I disucssed with Flash at the time - if his non-limited SC kit was available at the time, it would have been a no-brainer. I still have the original D1 SC kit (in storage) as a back-up (and if I can get a manual Cab - it will go on that as is as a road car).



Hindsight is a great thing. I possibly could have sold the car, taken what I have spent and bought a 996 GT3, but I love the car and it will now out perform a GT3.



I don't think I will ever sell the car, so the journey to where we are today has been as important as the end point in terms of the dollars and tears invested and hence the bond that money will not replace - so it is a bit like a marriage (which clocked over 10 years a couple of days ago).



So now that the exchange rate is better than parity - I would definately think about simply buying a turbo engine and dropping it in.

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[Cloud9...68]

Craig,



Interesting. I've had the impression that a turbo is still very much a custom affair - anything but a drop-in. The fact that you'd even compare your experience to turbocharging one of these engines speaks volumes of the agony you've gone through. Best of luck with getting it sorted out.



Faster than a GT3, huh. Wow, that is truly impressive.

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[craigawoodman]

Cloud,



Powerhaus list a price for a complete engine package - effectively new for old. I looked at this and thought I had chosen a cheaper alternative (it would have been if the kit fit and I didn't rebuild the engine). So $5k for Flash's kit or $25k for a nominally 500hp turbo engine.



Hopefully I will end up somewhere in the middle in terms of power and my masochistic tendancies will be ok for a while.

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[Cloud9...68]

$25K is just a staggering amount of money to turbocharge an engine, even with a full rebuild thrown in. I've never seen a report from anybody who's ever bought and installed an engine from Powerhaus, so I have no idea how their real-world performance is, although I vaguely remember reports years ago of people who were thinking of going with them, but something about the process not working out (no intention of slagging Powerhaus, just relying on some very foggy memories). Flash's solutions sure seem like an incredible bargain by comparison.

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[flash]

i have. the reviews were not glowing. pretty much what you would expect. major tuning required, yada yada.



having met the guy myself 8 years ago, and being a prime candidate for becoming a customer (checkbook ready and hungry for more power), i was singularly underwhelmed when he didn't want to answer any questions about the car, and told me to "go away"



what i have done is try to come up with something that would serve the majority. there is not much likelihood of achieving the kind of power a turbo can make (assuming you lower the compression to do it). but, for bolt-on power, without having to re-engineer the engine, this does seem to be the ticket, whether the standard kit or this one.

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[MB968]

I can second Eric_Oz's comments. Tuning shouldn't be a showstopper; it isn't that difficult. Seems pretty intimidating up front, but I didn't find it all that bad. In fact, as a techie I found it could be fun. And, the tools today make it alot easier. I tuned my Mazda KLDE engine in the pic using an Electromotive standalone (TEC II) which is similar to the Motec but a bit cheaper. The TEC II supports datalogging of something like 20+ data channels from engine sensors, injectors, etc. I had to develop all maps (fuel, timing, A/F ratio, volumetric efficiency, etc.) since this engine was never boosted from the factory. And, this was enough years ago that it predated wide band O2 sensors, so all my tuning was done with the narrow band O2 I followed it all up with about 2 hours on the dyno. But, the only result of the dyno work was adding a few more degrees of ignition pretty much across the board, and removing about 10% fuel in the region of the highest torque level.

   

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[flash]

tuning the motronic isn't so easy, especially on the 968.



first off, there isn't a complete module i am aware of that allows the new tools to be used. the module for tunerpro is incomplete. you can still use it and fiddle around, but there are maps missing, so you have to go back to more difficult tuning tools.



second, there are limitations to the motronic itself. it's processing speed isn't all that great, and there are some built in code limitations that porsche put there.



third, if you go much past stock, you run out of injector, which then puts you in the spot of having to go to different injectors, and then make some compromises on cold running and such.



yes, it can be done, but plan to spend some time doing it.



standalone would definitely make this a lot easier, but adds to the cost.



it's all about how much you want, and what you are willing to spend to get it. but i figured that if somebody else wanted to undertake the task of making it happen, i should provide what i can to help them, hence the "hardware only" kit

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[986boxster1998]

MB968,



Looks like a Ford Probe GT/GTS; I was very found of those for quite a few years and owned several before moving on to Porsches.



Happy Motoring, Dan

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[MB968]

Good catch, yep it is a Ford Probe GT. Also owned an MX6, but kept it stock.

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[flash]

this kit is now ready to go. for those who want to maximize the power from a centrifugal supercharger kit, here is your chance. you get all the hardware needed to bolt the kit onto your car, and all the same support as the complete kit, but you can bolt on an unmodified and unlimited head unit, tune it how you want to (or go standalone) and end up with as much as 350hp!



i can also provide a head unit for you at a discount from what you would have to pay retail.



i'm not getting involved with tuning or standalone systems though. lol - that one is on you!



http://shop.design1racing.com/968-Superc...-SC-HO.htm

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