10-27-2010, 12:20 PM
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Newborn killed by family's pit bull
Newborn killed by family's pit bull
10-27-2010, 02:14 PM
I always hate hearing stories like these, especially as an APBT owner, breeder, and enthusiast. They never make much sense to me either. The APBT was bred for well over 100 years, to specifically not have human aggression. They were fighting dogs, trained for pit fighting, for gambling men. When bull baiting was outlawed. If a dog EVER showed aggression toward a handler, referee, or any human, they were immediately culled, and the genes were not allowed to pass on. There is a reason they were once known as "the nanny dog". Back then, an owner could fight them, or work them for hunting, and what not, and bring them home, and they would watch the children. I can only think of two ways something like this could happen. A: the dog, comes from a thoroughly gamebred line still to this day, and not in the traditional sense as a multipurpose dog, with non human aggression. Some people have been selectively breeding them for a while now for human aggression, it could be bred in. A dog like that, with such a high prey drive, needs very attentive rearing to be around people at all. Even from pup, its simply in their genotype now. Something like that has to be bred back out. B: Lack of proper raising. Pits arent for everybody. People get them because they like the way they look, or everyone is doing it(trendy) a lot. They fail to realize, they are not considered a "bully breed" for nothing. Theyre not poodles. The are much like wolves in the sense of the way they pack up, in an alpha male type dog society so to speak. They end up with a dog that bullies them, and does what it wants. You have to be extremely stern with them when they are pups. They must realize you are the alpha, and nothing is carried out without your command, and approval. What Im about to say will sound mean to some people. A pit bull needs a good azz whooping from its owner a few times in its life. They call them bullies, because they will bully you, and test your limits. Dogs establish an alpha by fighting. Some people cant handle this, and yes theyre other ways of dealing with it, but not usually as effective(especially with pits). Dont take this as I beat my dogs, cause I dont. Ive never hurt my dogs, but a good spanking gets ther attention, and is what they respond to best really, when theyre young. It doesnt hurt anything but their ego, really. I havent had to spank theyre butts, since they were under a year old.(theyre going on 5 now) You have to think like them. In their world, the alpha is the king, if you dont establish this when theyre young, things like this happen. Fighting is what they know. They will actually love you, and respect you forever, the more disciplined you are with them. Not everyone can deal with being that disciplined. A pit that doesnt know that alpha will whoop its butt if it gets out of line, is a dangerous thing(as is with MOST big dogs really IMO). Me and my dogs have an understanding, you dont hurt kids, or people at all(of course if my ol lady is getting mugged or something thats different), and I dont have to put you down.
A true pitbull, can be in full attack mode with another dog, and when the owner/handler gives the command, it will stop what its doing immediately. Kinda like a prize fighter in the ring, and the ref tells him to go to his corner. I am totally against dog fighting. But its very important to know where the breed came from, and therefore how it thinks.
This story is just tragic. Its hard to say why it happened, but Im getting the feeling this dog thought it was the alpha. That upbringing, combined with a recent(illegal) game bred program in its line, is not good. The trend these days for the gamebred dogs, is all game, no nanny more, and more. Which is why the breed really isnt what it used to be, but thats another story really. The more gamebred, the more discipline and attention they need. Not all game bred dogs, are bred for pit fighting tho, some are still used for hunting, and working these days. They love to hunt wild hogs. The red pits tend to be more gamie too. I noticed this dog was a red. (I wonder how old it was) They came from a line that was brought from Ireland, called old family red nose mostly. OFRN were very, very game bred. Its usually the owners fault, but the dog pays for it. Just tragic all around. Shame. Im so fed up with the people around pit bulls, my next foundation stock will be Leavitt bulldogs. I have no interest in personally continuing the breed any more. Still love the hell out of em tho. Theyre just so poorly bred nowadays, perfect stock is near impossible to find. Such a shame, for a once iconic american dog. People suck!
A true pitbull, can be in full attack mode with another dog, and when the owner/handler gives the command, it will stop what its doing immediately. Kinda like a prize fighter in the ring, and the ref tells him to go to his corner. I am totally against dog fighting. But its very important to know where the breed came from, and therefore how it thinks.
This story is just tragic. Its hard to say why it happened, but Im getting the feeling this dog thought it was the alpha. That upbringing, combined with a recent(illegal) game bred program in its line, is not good. The trend these days for the gamebred dogs, is all game, no nanny more, and more. Which is why the breed really isnt what it used to be, but thats another story really. The more gamebred, the more discipline and attention they need. Not all game bred dogs, are bred for pit fighting tho, some are still used for hunting, and working these days. They love to hunt wild hogs. The red pits tend to be more gamie too. I noticed this dog was a red. (I wonder how old it was) They came from a line that was brought from Ireland, called old family red nose mostly. OFRN were very, very game bred. Its usually the owners fault, but the dog pays for it. Just tragic all around. Shame. Im so fed up with the people around pit bulls, my next foundation stock will be Leavitt bulldogs. I have no interest in personally continuing the breed any more. Still love the hell out of em tho. Theyre just so poorly bred nowadays, perfect stock is near impossible to find. Such a shame, for a once iconic american dog. People suck!
10-27-2010, 02:53 PM
Much of what you say holds true for German Shepherds as well. Owning 2 of them, i would never leave them around toddlers. My male is very alpha. Growing up, he has tested my limits many times, but he def. knows who is the boss.
10-27-2010, 03:34 PM
A pit bull needs a good azz whooping from its owner a few times in its life. They call them bullies, because they will bully you, and test your limits. Dogs establish an alpha by fighting"
oh wait.. Quotes are back on)
Good point. The owner has to be balanced. Much like raising children, you can love and discipline them. A lack of either could ruin things down the road.
An animal hurting a human is the worst but I also hate when animals are abused from what the owner "THINKS" is necessary.
I was at the park with my daughter a few years ago and a guy was training his Doberman to stay. he would give the command then start to walk away, the dog naturally wanted to follow. When the dog did the guy, IMO, got too rough with him. punches were thrown and the dogs face was pushed into the sidewalk pretty dam hard. My daughter started crying so we left before round 2 started. As we walked pass the wimpering dog the owner says, "it doesn't hurt him , he's OK". <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Man I wanted to floor that POS.
LOL- the pic from 1892 is scary!
oh wait.. Quotes are back on)
Good point. The owner has to be balanced. Much like raising children, you can love and discipline them. A lack of either could ruin things down the road.
An animal hurting a human is the worst but I also hate when animals are abused from what the owner "THINKS" is necessary.
I was at the park with my daughter a few years ago and a guy was training his Doberman to stay. he would give the command then start to walk away, the dog naturally wanted to follow. When the dog did the guy, IMO, got too rough with him. punches were thrown and the dogs face was pushed into the sidewalk pretty dam hard. My daughter started crying so we left before round 2 started. As we walked pass the wimpering dog the owner says, "it doesn't hurt him , he's OK". <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Man I wanted to floor that POS.
LOL- the pic from 1892 is scary!
10-27-2010, 03:40 PM
Great history on the breed. Problem is, it sure seems like most of these folks have no idea what they really have. How many more people have to get mauled or babies killed before these people wake up. How many more times do we have to read "I don't understand, it never showed any aggresion before" They ought to have to pass a test or something before they are allowed to own one of these dogs. Just to be sure there is a functioning brain somewhere.
10-27-2010, 04:12 PM
Yes, German shepherds display the alpha traits of the wolf quite a bit too, and are also a big dog, that could potentially be dangerous, in the wrong hands. Ive been around a few of them, and rotties, but never owned them. Great dogs. Bully breeds are the most stubborn Ive ever experienced tho, even when their older, when it comes to tricks, n stuff. Shepherds, I havent experienced them being so stubborn, and respond to training pretty well usually. Rotties can be a bit stubborn in my experience, but not like a pit bull. Once the pit bull, establishes the pack tho, man..they are absolutely wonderful dogs. So loyal, shepherds are extremely loyal too. Its true, alpha males really want you to show them who is boss. Its almost like their test of character, of you. I actually trust my dogs around kids, and theyve been tested, and specifically socialized around them, I mean for my dogs to be true APBT, in every sense of the name, besides fighting, which is tough to keep them out of sometimes, if an unneutered male is around. He wont listen to a woman if he sees another dog around either, he goes into protect mode until I get there. We were temporarily living in an apt complex, and a guy was letting his rottweiler run around without a leash. The dog came up to my girlfriend, and him, and the dog lunged, my pittie "kesey", went straight into attack mode, clamped his snout, and started the infamous pit bull death wiggle. The neighbors came, and got me, as soon as he got the "drop it" command, he dropped the dogs snout, and sat down at attention. Like its ok now mom, dads here. She was struggling to stop him, but he wasnt having it from a woman.
They know the command "be nice to the baby", otherwise theyll get it, they know I dont play when it comes to babies. I wouldnt leave them unattended together tho. Dogs, do things on accident, like whack em with their tail, or knock em over running for the door, etc. I really dont think my dogs would do anything intentionally if they were alone tho. Most likely sit at attention, or on guard over the kids til adults get back. Its really instinctual in pit bulls, to guard the family, especially children. It is a trait that has to be brought out of them so to speak I guess tho. I dont think a lot of people who own them know this, and train for it tho.
When pits do something like this, something is very wrong. Thats why I just dont get it, by breed standard, and conformation, instinctually they protect them, it was a trait specifically bred into the vast majority of them. Id say of all breeds, they are the least likely to go after humans in my experience, and arent very good for personal protection work. Simply because of there specific human friendly traits, it really isnt in them as a breed. It happens tho, and boggles my mind for the most part. I guess any dog has that potential. Its got to be nipped in the bud. Yeah, Im going with these guys raised it like it was a chihuaha, and let it have free reign. Thatd be my guess. Ive seen vicious chihuahas, but theyre little, and cant do a whole lot. Their viciousness, is usually because they are the alpha. People often let little dogs go like that. Little dogs bite kids the most in my experience. A big dog, could just think its playing, and kill a toddler easily. Its up to the parents to socialize the dogs, and children properly. Seems these parents may have failed in that department, unfortunately.
They know the command "be nice to the baby", otherwise theyll get it, they know I dont play when it comes to babies. I wouldnt leave them unattended together tho. Dogs, do things on accident, like whack em with their tail, or knock em over running for the door, etc. I really dont think my dogs would do anything intentionally if they were alone tho. Most likely sit at attention, or on guard over the kids til adults get back. Its really instinctual in pit bulls, to guard the family, especially children. It is a trait that has to be brought out of them so to speak I guess tho. I dont think a lot of people who own them know this, and train for it tho.
When pits do something like this, something is very wrong. Thats why I just dont get it, by breed standard, and conformation, instinctually they protect them, it was a trait specifically bred into the vast majority of them. Id say of all breeds, they are the least likely to go after humans in my experience, and arent very good for personal protection work. Simply because of there specific human friendly traits, it really isnt in them as a breed. It happens tho, and boggles my mind for the most part. I guess any dog has that potential. Its got to be nipped in the bud. Yeah, Im going with these guys raised it like it was a chihuaha, and let it have free reign. Thatd be my guess. Ive seen vicious chihuahas, but theyre little, and cant do a whole lot. Their viciousness, is usually because they are the alpha. People often let little dogs go like that. Little dogs bite kids the most in my experience. A big dog, could just think its playing, and kill a toddler easily. Its up to the parents to socialize the dogs, and children properly. Seems these parents may have failed in that department, unfortunately.
10-27-2010, 04:20 PM
I saw a news item about a pet buffalo that had wandered into a neighbor's pool. What?
This was a residential area, not a preserve in CO. Sometimes I just don't understand what some people are thinking. Oh, boy wouldn't it be cool to have a buffalo in the back yard?
Speaking of pets, anyone seen the commercial with the eccentric yet frugal Russian dude who owns the miniature giraffe? I laugh every time I see that spot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLEz7E8bDrw
Sorry rhude, my mind is wandering a bit today...
OK so now our links are showing up in a mini-window. Cool beans boys!
This was a residential area, not a preserve in CO. Sometimes I just don't understand what some people are thinking. Oh, boy wouldn't it be cool to have a buffalo in the back yard?
Speaking of pets, anyone seen the commercial with the eccentric yet frugal Russian dude who owns the miniature giraffe? I laugh every time I see that spot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLEz7E8bDrw
Sorry rhude, my mind is wandering a bit today...
OK so now our links are showing up in a mini-window. Cool beans boys!
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2010, 04:21 PM by rxter.)
10-27-2010, 04:45 PM
Rhudeboye: Yeah punching on the face is unacceptable. Dobies dont have real thick skulls either. Best is to use a rolled up newspaper or something. That is no way to train a dog. Thats best done on a reward system, with treats. Pitbulls dont respond well when beat up over training. They tend to close up, and be stubborn, and unresponsive. They are so tough, they wont give in if you beat them in circumstances like that usually. The only time Ive really had to lay down an azz whoopin, is when hes been in fights, trying to kill other dogs. Only way to get them apart, is to tear flesh sometimes. Kicking, punching, water from hoses, etc wont work. Theyre are just too tough, and thick boned, and stout it doesnt phase em. It gets pretty ugly when they fight. You just gotta rip em apart, its bloody. Once there apart, Is when I would get my message across. Part of the reason my dog can just drop it in the middle of a fight now, is he remembers the whoopin Ive had to deliver, after hes been fighting. Id rather whoop him a few times, and school him, than him rip the neighbors poodles head off, and him put down, and a lawsuit. Simply cant be tolerated. They are gladiator dogs, what they understand best is a whoopin by the alpha figure, in those circumstances, unfortunately. Other times, Ive had to spank em pretty darn good(on the butt), for things like, completely destroying the house, crapping or peeing in the house when theyve been house trained for close to a year. You gotta crate train em, first 2 years or so, Ive learned that the hard way. The males are very stubborn tho, and just love to fight. Hard to control sometimes, but not if you nip it in the bud.
Wiseman: I couldnt agree more. I think its important to remember any dog is capable of it in the wrong hands tho. Pitties are just really good at combat.Its like having an assault rifle, or any weapon really. Not just anybody should be allowed to own them. Obviously some people are maniacs, who shouldnt own weapons. Same could be said for dog owners, they dont necessarily have to be maniacal tho. LOL
Wiseman: I couldnt agree more. I think its important to remember any dog is capable of it in the wrong hands tho. Pitties are just really good at combat.Its like having an assault rifle, or any weapon really. Not just anybody should be allowed to own them. Obviously some people are maniacs, who shouldnt own weapons. Same could be said for dog owners, they dont necessarily have to be maniacal tho. LOL
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2010, 05:25 PM by Monstrous4Banger.)
10-27-2010, 04:50 PM
[quote name='rxter' timestamp='1288207206' post='100092']
seen the commercial with the eccentric yet frugal Russian dude who owns the miniature giraffe?
[/quote]
<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
I only saw it once and that was in a sports bar. Couldn't hear what was being said. But I could see his bellowing laugh at the end while holding the giraffe. That was enough to make me LOL.
seen the commercial with the eccentric yet frugal Russian dude who owns the miniature giraffe?
[/quote]
<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
I only saw it once and that was in a sports bar. Couldn't hear what was being said. But I could see his bellowing laugh at the end while holding the giraffe. That was enough to make me LOL.
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