[flash]

the prototype for the hardtop unit is here - i will be testing and fitting this weekend

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[Fox944]

[quote name='flash' post='63821' date='Dec 4 2008, 11:29 PM']the prototype for the hardtop unit is here - i will be testing and fitting this weekend[/quote]





As an approx. percentage, how much stiffer would this make a coupe chassi which already has a Strut Brace, Lower Chassis Brace & Harness/Chassis Brace in the rear?

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[flash]

no telling yet



the primary reason for developing this unit is to provide something to appease the stewards for DE events - like the other unit, it will be made to meet or exceed design requirements for SCCA and PCA roll bars (not full cages though), but for obvious reasons of liability, we cannot call it a roll bar - we will not be crash testing or rolling a car, which is what is required to legally call it a roll bar

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[banditsc]

[quote name='flash' post='63838' date='Dec 5 2008, 11:26 AM']we will not be crash testing or rolling a car, which is what is required to legally call it a roll bar[/quote]



I'd fly out there to help you roll your car over to checkout that chassis brace.. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

funny stuff - wouldn't help with my car though - i'd have to weld on a roof, then set my mind to a lower setting of fun because of that.............but maybe we can find somebody else?



seriously - first fitting done - looks like i can get there - i'll be doing another one soon to work out some details and such



i should have a definitive answer in the next couple of weeks - i really want to have the design done and completion of preliminary fittings before xmas

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[flash]

a couple of questions, and i am looking for estimates of a ratio, not just "i would" or "not me":



how many people will actually plan on racing with this, and not just doing a DE?



of those just doing DE events, how many would need a harness bar?



things you can assume:



it will pass SCCA and PCA spec



it will be 1.5" diameter .120" wall DOM tubing, with frame mounted landing plates (required in order to pass spec)



it will be removable, straight bolt in, and will not require any welding, drilling, or major modification



it will be priced competitively



it will NOT work in early cars (92- early 94) without either removing the lower rear seat pad, or replacing it with the later one (the one from late 94 - 95) - this is a simple thing to do, but will be necessary - sorry guys

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[flash]

moved along a bit farther in the design today - very happy with it so far - the harness bar will be adjustable to accommodate the different height seats - i was unable to do this is in the cab unit, due to the car's top configuration, but in the hardtop, it was pretty easy

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[Cloud9...68]

I doubt I'd do any racing in my 968. At the risk of boring you with more information than you need (or making you salivate with envy <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ), my interest is that once I progress in the driving academy where I'm enrolled to the advanced level, my car will need to pass specific safety requirements. Currently I'm a novice, but am getting close to taking the exam to advance to the intermeditate class. This opens a larger part of the track, where you learn how to handle a blind turn, and a severe elevation change. No need for any specific safety equipment yet. But after that, in the advanced group, the real fun begins, where you utilize the whole 2.1 mile track, including a long back straight. Since you build up significant speed here, they require you to either use one of their race-prepared Miatas, or have approved saftey gear in your car. Since this is still a little ways off for me, I haven't inquired into exactly what it entails, but I'm sure at a minimum it means an approved roll bar, and of course a harness.



Thanks for sticking with this project. Out of curiosity, what is different between an early car's (mine's a 92) lower seat pad, and the later cars'? My car has "solid" rear seats, in which the vinly covering covers the entire backrest, along with the seat. I've seen pictures of other cars where there is carpeting between the seat pad and the upper part of the backrest. So, my seat pad isn't removable, without having to take the whole rear seat out. Thanks.

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[flash]

it is removable - i've pulled one out - i'll dig up shots

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[Cloud9...68]

OK, I'll take a closer look at mine in the meantime.



Also, you've said the potential increased chassis stiffness for the hard top brace won't be as great as in a cab, because of fewer pick-up points, and the inability to weld the front pick-ups, which makes sense. But wouldn't the inherent extra stiffening from the roof make up for this? Or are the extra pick-up points in the cab at such strategically advantageous locations that they provide more optimal stiffening than even the coupe's roof provides? See, you were right, you are going to have to explain this <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

looks like i have to use the same number of pick up points as the cab unit in order to pass a design spec issue for pca - let me finish the design, and test fit again, so i can comment more about this in detail

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[Cloud9...68]

OK, sounds great. I have a feeling that this is going to be the leading edge of a very slippery slope for me (racing class -->chassis brace/roll bar for safety/foundation for suspension mods -->racing seats/harness--> aforementioned $uspension mods --> More power-->all to stay "competitive" with other drivers in the class -->better lap times --> more mods, etc.). Maybe the lighter wallet will also improve my lap times...

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[968crazy]

I'm just doing DE and autocross mostly autocross.

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[white924s]

Sorry for not responding earlier...I'm glad to hear that things are coming along well with this and I'm definitely interested in seeing some pictures of the prototype unit. For me, I'd probably only be using it for DE's and Auto-X (can't afford door-to-door racing yet) but I do think that having a bar that meets/exceeds PCA and SCCA requirements is important. I'd also like a harness bar as I would probably get harnesses at the same time (already have harness-compatible seats)



You mention that it won't fit in early rear seats - can you please elaborate? I was thinking about doing some kind of rear-seat delete with this anyway (to offset the weight gain) but I was wondering if you're implying that this bar won't work with 944-style mounting points.



Thanks

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[flash]

i think there are about 30 of them out there



your issues and concerns are the same as the cab guys - that's why it took so long to design, and why this one is doing the same - i have to fit and refit each piece until i nail something that works for specs, rear seats, kid's heads, removability, yada yada



getting close - the holiday is getting in my way a bit, but i should be able to have a car over here to do another fit session soon

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[jeffski1]

Hey busy guy (that's you Flash). How's your schedule looking? Are you still wanting to hook up for test fitting? I am on a trip now, but I will 'hopefully' be home Sunday afternoon and then have Mon & Tues off as well. Call me whenever.

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[flash]

either one should work - i'll ring you up and work it out

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[white924s]

[quote name='flash' post='64450' date='Dec 20 2008, 11:40 AM']i think there are about 30 of them out there



your issues and concerns are the same as the cab guys - that's why it took so long to design, and why this one is doing the same - i have to fit and refit each piece until i nail something that works for specs, rear seats, kid's heads, removability, yada yada



getting close - the holiday is getting in my way a bit, but i should be able to have a car over here to do another fit session soon[/quote]

Thanks - I've seen a lot of the pictures of the cab unit, I'm interested to see what (if any changes) will be needed to get it to fit in/out of the Coupe. But I don't mean to add any pressure to you - reading the other threads about the cab braces, I can tell you're pretty busy with that, and I've got a couple other projects to work on for my car before I can get to adding a chassis brace/harness bar, so please don't rush on my account. As I'm sure others have said, it looks like your cabrio brace system is really top notch in terms of design, incorporating compliance with various santioning bodies and ease of install/removal, and execution. I understand that there's a lot of work that needs to go into making something comparably well-suited to the hardtop, and I can't wait to see how it turns out.



Also, out of curiousity, would you ever consider selling just part of the brace (eg the mounting plates for the main bar) or selling the bar in an unassembled kit form (eg plates and bent tubes to be welded together by customer)?

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[flash]

actually just about to ship the latest batch of cab units - i plan to wrap up the design on the hardtop unit this week



as for the a la carte thing, i'm not really interested in that - it presents a few issues that i don't really want to get into - it's not something that is easily done anyway - you need the jig to get the angles and such right - you wouldn't be able to do it in the car either, without removing all the interior and windows and everything

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[flash]

ready to dive back into this now - i need a car over here for an hour - who wants to pop by for a beer while i take some quick measurements?

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