[94SilverCab]

I shared with you that I have been on the Saxum waiting list for several years, Cayuse doesn't even tell me how long the wait is, but I hear there are 12,000 ahead of me.



 

 

Dear Jonathan

,



 

We wish we had better news. You've been waiting patiently for a spot on the Cayuse Vineyards Mailing List, and we see that thirsty look in your eyes. Unfortunately, quantities of our wines are extremely limited, as we can only produce what our vineyards allow.



 

But please don't give up hope. We look forward to welcoming you to the Mailing List one day in the future, and your perseverance will be rewarded--we promise. Besides, didn't somebody's mother once claim you'd appreciate things more if you had to wait for them? She probably meant well, but had obviously not spent much time on the Cayuse Wait List. 



 

Best wishes for the new year,



Christophe Baron, Vigneron                  Trevor Dorland, PDG



P.S. We look forward to adding your name to our Mailing List in the future. You can expect to hear from us annually in January regarding your Mailing List status. In the meantime,

please let us know of any address or contact information changes. Also, if your patience is wearing extra thin, you might be able to find a few bottles of Cayuse in the retail marketplace
<span>at
<span> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">wine-searcher.com
</span>.
</span></span>

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[ds968]

Oof, Jay you have more patience than anyone I know !!


( you may want to gift Melva a crocodile Hermes Birkin bag , so that way you can get on another ridiculously long waiting list and then run a game to see whether you get the wine or the purse first , lol )

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[94SilverCab]

I'll probably be too old to drink by the time this comes through...LOL. All for fun at this point

 

At least I was able to buy one bottle for my cellar (#37 on the Wine Spectator 2016 100 Best).

 

Jay

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[ds968]

Pardon my ignorance but where are the Saxum and the Cayuse wineries / vineyards , respectively , located ?

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[94SilverCab]

Saxum is in Paso Robles, Cayuse is in Walla Walla, WA.

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[flash]

wine from walla walla?  just guessing, but i am thinking that it will be dull and grey tasting and the nose and finish will be the same?

 

it was funny in my room

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[Chris Vais]

There is some good wine coming out of Eastern Washington where Walla Walla is located. I wouldn't have thought that Pinot Noir would be one of them.

 

I really haven't figured out how to create the aura of exclusivity that Saxum, Cayuse, and others have managed to do. It helps to get a high number rating from Wine Spectator, but only works if you happen to share the Wine Spectator's tasters palate. Some producers, who shall remain nameless here, have specifically set out to craft wines they know fit into the wine spectators "sweet spot" with the express intent of landing a high rating. The high rating will generate a lot of interest amongst people follow and buy based on ratings. You just have to keep your case production low so there isn't enough to go around.

 

To me fine wine making is about producing a wine that reflects the terroir of where it was grown, the flavors and aromas of the fruit, and the skill of the winemaker to capture those factors.

 

This past year we had one of our wines achieve a Best in Class at the San Francisco Chronicle Wine Competition, as well as 4 achieve a 90 point score with the Wine Enthusiast's tasters. Are production numbers are so low that we couldn't create the "aura of exclusivity" because we already sold out by the time the results were announced!!

 

The 2016 vintage rocks. We clarifying and stabilizing our 2016 white wines. We produced a Pinot Gris that has the acidity and minerality that I would expect to find in a Pinto Gris from the Alsace. Chardonnay is still in barrels and remain there until June.

 

The 2013 reds we are releasing have proven to be very good wines and I am pleased with the outcome. We shortly will be distributing wines out of Maryland and Florida as part of our efforts to grow sales. It is working, shipped 54 cases of wine to Florida between Christmas and New Years.

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[az968]

Here's what you do, Chris. Send letters to everyone in the wine press and anyone you know who enjoys fine wine (Jay, Flash, Kaj) advising them that production has been sold out for the next several years and that you cannot add them to your mailing list at this time and that they should check with you once a year and you'll see if someone on the list has died and not willed their space so you could add a new person. Release the letter on the Web and start go ogling your letter. And you're set!


You're welcome.

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[flash]

i am becoming less and less impressed with california wines, and i have yet to have anything from the northern coast that said anything to me.  it seems that it has gotten to the point where winemakers are doing the bulk of their fermenting in stainless steel, and spending little time in oak.  additionally, and more significantly, the wines are so full of sugars, and the alcohol content is getting so high, that i have a hard time enjoying them.  it has been the way of paso robles for some time now, and is getting into napa.  yes, it is more profitable, but i am fast getting to the point where i can't drink any, without fear of a gnarly headache, and a night of a racing heartbeat getting to that point.  it seems that every joe bag-o-donuts and their cousin can start up a winery, and churn out tons of product.  unfortunately the general public doesn't know any better.  even most of my favorite california wines have gone the route of "consistency", in an attempt to be profitable, and settle for mediocrity, rather than make the best wine they can, and perhaps dump a few years of profit.  money is ruining the wine business.  i would gladly rather pay $200 for a bottle of wine, and get a good bottle, rather than $50 and just get a headache.

 

as for waiting lists, that seems silly to me.  as an example, after talking with a number of winemakers in paso, they all agree that saxum had a couple of good years, but now it's just "ok".  i don't know about cayuse, but unless it is a vanity wine, made without care to profit, i suspect it will ultimately be the same, for the reasons i describe above.

 

this may turn out to be one of the best side benefits of moving to ireland.  i'll be drinking a lot more italian and french wines, from wineries that are not trying to churn out as much product as they can, but rather are more interested in quality.

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[Chris Vais]

Flash, at the risk of raising your ire, I would say that your impression of how wine is made in California is somewhat misinformed. Almost all white wines are fermented in stainless steel tanks so that we can control the temperature during fermentation thereby preserving the aroma and taste of the fruit. We barrel ferment our Chardonnay in neutral oak barrels. Our fruit source is atypical of California in that it comes from a vineyard that is planted to two Dijon Clones unlike most Chardonnay Vineyards that are planted to Wente of Frazer Howard Clones. Our Chardonnay is made in the Montrachet style, minimal oak influence and minimal malolactic fermentation.

 

Bulk wine producers who produce the vast amounts of inexpensive wines we see in this country do everything in stainless steel. Their wines never see the inside of a wine barrel. Quality wine producers ferment red wine in stainless steel or, as is the case with Longevity, in 1 ton capacity food grade bins. The vessel the wine is fermented in has very little to do with quality of the outcome as long as the fermentation vessels are kept sanitary. Once fermented, all of our red wines go into French Oak barrels where they are aged from 14 to 30 months. We barrel ferment only two of our wines, Cabernet and Chardonnay.

 

We are blessed in California with abundant sunshine, and by wine grape standards, a long growing season. This leads to a situation where the grapes can develop very high sugar levels before the other ripeness factors are achieved. With the high sugar levels it is possible to produce wines that are high in alcohol, if you don't water the juice back to lower the Brix prior to fermentation. So if the alcohol level can so easily be controlled, why do the bulk of the wines produced in California fall into the 14.2% to 14.8% ABV range? Because the higher level of alcohol makes the wine taste sweet even though there is no residual sugar. If I were to take a 12.5% red wine to start with and then incrementally raise the alcohol level by adding grape spirits, the wine would taste sweeter on the palate as you increase the alcohol up to about 15% where the wines tastes hot on your palate. Humans are hard wired to sweet, a trait that has been with us since day one. Plants, fruits, seeds that taste sweet to us are both nutritious and non-poisonous. Plants, fruits, and seeds that are bitter to the taste are potentially poisonous and therefore unsafe to eat.

 

In Europe, the alcohol level is wines is strictly controlled. The problem with that is if the other factors such as total acidity and fruit ripeness have not been achieved the wines will taste green, a major fault, which it the primary reason for some of the variation in vintage quality that one experiences with French Wines among others.

 

But Flash, salvation is at hand. With global warming, the vineyards in Europe which can barely ripen fruit will in a matter of a few short years be able to produce California like levels of sugar in their wine grapes and the grapes might even achieve ripeness. 

 

One last question for you, do your headaches and tachycardia come with al wines or just certain ones? The reason I ask is that you might actually be experiencing an allergic reaction wine yeasts. The big high alcohol wines that you attribute your physical react  too are all fermented full dry, the sweetness you experience comes from fruit and alcohol.

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[flash]

i didn't say that the wines tasted sweet.  i wouldn't even drink a sweet wine.  with rare exception, i really don't like anything sweet.  i said they were high in sugar.  i am keenly aware of my blood sugar levels and the effects of things high in sugar.  for hereditary medical reasons i have to watch that.   my blood sugar levels soar on california wines, and no, it does not seem to matter whether it is red or white, or any particular variety.  i do not seem to have this problem on the italian wines i tend to drink.  i don't drink a lot of french wine, so i don't know about that one yet.  i'm looking forward to learning about french wines, as my experience thusfar with them is that i find them pretentious and confused.  too many things going on for my palate.  everybody raves about them, but i wonder if it's just the emperor's new clothes.  we'll see.

 

i don't think it's yeast, though there is definitely a histamine reaction.  one glass of a paso red and my sinuses jam up.  yeast was my first thought, but i have no issues with other things with yeast, and i have discussed this with both winemakers and my doctor.  one of the winemakers with whom i have the strongest reaction uses the least amount of yeast in their wines in all of paso robles.  i only have this reaction with wines made here, and worse with wines from paso robles.  the going theory is it's something specific in the soil.  it's really a major pain in the butt to figure out, and no more fun to live with.

 

i am finding more and more that i am turned off by wines with high alcohol content, and it's getting harder and harder to find a bottle with less than 14%.  i find myself throwing out more and more bottles when i open them and the first thing to the nose is alcohol.  i almost always have to decant a california wine, just to smooth out that nasty smell.  i'm using the right glasses for each type of wine too (we have a decent inventory of various types).  it's getting increasingly frustrating.  i have all but given up on paso robles.  i realize that the explanation is as you say, with the growing season and all that, but it doesn't change that i don't like it.  in my perfect world there would be no alcohol in the wine.  unfortunately those taste like crap.

 

as for how wine is made, i realize that more and more wineries are going to stainless.  no fighting that, but 50 years ago nobody used them.  they were only first introduced in 1961.  while i understand that they lead to an easier method of achieving an exact taste, because the stainless does not add to the flavor, i think a lot is lost there.  i happen to like the taste that oak gives, particularly to a chardonnay.  i only like oakey tasting chards.  i also understand that stainless is easier to clean, and lasts a lot longer, making things more economical.  however, wine isn't supposed to be economical.  it's supposed to be special.  i happen to feel that marketing to the guy who wants a $10 bottle is a mistake.  opening a bottle of wine should be an event in and of itself.  it's not beer.

 

all of this is of course serious generalization.  it is also extremely subjective.  that being said, i do know what i do and don't like, and that my opinions on various wines have changed in the last 30 years, and i think it is because the way they have been made has also changed, and i don't think it is for the better.

 

it really is only that i will be a lot more discerning in my choices, and likely narrow it down to more traditional winemakers, and avoid the newbies.  i've tried a lot of different wines over the years, from a lot of different winemakers, and what i have found is that i may like something in the tasting room, but when i get home and live with it, more often than not it loses its appeal.  i chalk this one up to the rush from the higher blood sugar levels.  that sugar high seems to dramatically affect my palate.

 

none of this is meant to tell anybody else what to drink or not drink.  everybody is different on that one.  there is no right or wrong.  that's the beauty of wine.  there is something for everybody.

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[Rap]

When was the last time you had a full medical work up? Or are you waiting to have this done in Ireland? You are getting older.

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[flash]

lol - no, i don't have to wait to get to ireland, though it would be free there.  not that long ago though.  everything checked out fine.  didn't expect otherwise.  doc said i would live to be 200.  wife of course says otherwise.  i have always had blood sugar level issues, as far back as i can remember.  for whatever reason, sugars send me soaring, and when i don't eat, i really dip.  tests show all fine though.  i am probably due to go again, and likely will in the next few weeks.

 

back to the original topic, i hope that these new winemakers stop trying to make the same wine every year.  part of the charm and fun is in the wines being different year to year.  if it's always going to be the same, why bother buying any particular year?  it will always be there next year.  people certainly won't be buying cases.  they will buy only what they need for the immediate, knowing that they can always restock anytime.  if the goal is consistency, a waiting list is pointless.

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[Rap]

I agree on the waiting lists. Pointless! High alcohol is another issue I don't agree with.

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[Chris Vais]

Flash, the wines that you are drinking are all probably fermented full dry which means they have no residual sugar. The sweetness your perceive on your palate is alcohol. If you are curious to know what sugar levels are in your wine, go the drug store and by some Clinitest Tablets and a color chart. These tablets are what diabetics use to test urine for residual sugar and they are what I use to test wines for residual sugar. A dry red wine should have a residual sugar content on about 0.1%.

 

I'm betting on the yeast allergy. Each varietal of wine has it's own unique yeast strain that grows on the surface of the grape skin. In California there are no requirements that we use native yeast, so we does the newly crushed fruit with potassium metabisulfite to kill the native yeast and then inoculate the juice with a custom use that produces the fermentation we are looking for.

 

Read up on French and Italian wines to discover how they are classified. Both governments have strict regulations regarding use of native yeasts. Some rules restrict the amount of alcohol the finished wine can have. Other rules permit the addition of sugar to unfermented grape juice in order to raise the Brix level so that it will properly ferment. We are not allowed to do that in the US, but it is acceptable in France. In Bordeaux, where wines are limited to 12.5% ABV you are probably harvesting at 23 Brix. Your grapes may not be fully ripe with a TA that is higher than 0.6 grams per liter and the fruit may not be fully ripened. Your wine will turn out to have a lot of front end acidity and some vegetal notes on the palate. Wine made in this manner may take years of bottle age to be palatable. It is also the reason why there is so much variation in quality year to year.

 

The vast majority of wine buyers do not cellar wine. They buy it, take it home and consume it and so there is a tendency on the part of winemakers to produce wines that require no bottle age to be drinkable today or next week. That said if you buy and cellar those very same wines they will get better over time.

 

Longevity's wines are different every year. Other than adding water to reactors educe brix and adding tartaric acid to adjust total acidity in the juice prior to fermentation, we do not manipulate the wine during or after fermentation. We keep a wine library and we have done a number of vertical tastings and wines are always different year to year. Part of it due to aging, but the there are other differences year to year that are attributable to such factors as drought, temperature rise, degree of ripeness at harvest, even which forest in France supplied the wood for the barrels.

 

By way of example, we produced a 2012 Cabernet that done Best in Class at the San Francisco Chronicle Wines Competition last year. In 2012 we produced a total of 5 barrels of Cabernet, all were very good, but there was one barrel, an 8 year old French barrel from Francois Frere and Sons the produced a better wine than the other 4 barrels which were from different forests. So in 2013 I put all of the Cabernet in Francois Frere barrels averaging in age from 6 to 8 years. The wine aged for 30 months. So we;ll know in a month whether lightning strikes twice or not.

 

So why are we talking about wine, your going to be living next door to the land of single malt scotch!!!!

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[94SilverCab]

There is some good wine coming out of Eastern Washington where Walla Walla is located. I wouldn't have thought that Pinot Noir would be one of them.

 

 

 

Chris,

 

Just a clarification, I was in Walla Walla for the Syrah. You are correct in assuming that they are not known for Pinot Noir. There was an excellent article in Wine Spectator last year about Christophe Baron and the Syrah revolution he has started in the Walla Walla AVA (Which is in Oregon, by the way).

 

Jay

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[flash]

once again, this is NOT an issue of sweetness.  i do not taste anything sweet.  there is no sensation of sweetness.  this is an issue of sugar though, which DOES NOT translate to  or result in anything to dow with being sweet.

 

i have had myself tested for yeast issues.  none.  i would find it incredibly hard to believe that the wines from one region use a yeast not used anywhere else.  i really only have this issue with paso robles wines, and a few napa area wines (really sonoma).  i have never had this issue with itlalian wines, no matter how much i have had.  also, the wine i have had the most issue with, uses the least amount of yeast in paso.  that seems to eliminate that as the issue.

 

further, yeast would not explain the racing heart.  that is a blood sugar issue, and one with which i am very familiar, and have been tested for.

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[az968]

Nest door to single malt and surrounded by real Guiness! Life should be great!

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[flash]

LOVE guiness!!!!  really enjoying discovering various single malts, though i can't drink that much of it.

 

back on topic again

 

i don't understand the concept of waiting lists.  waiting for something not yet made, in the hopes that it might turn out good, and already being committed to paying for it, even if it isn't, makes no sense to me.  i even have issues belonging to wine clubs.  i'd rather wait, taste, and then buy.  i have cancelled all but one wine club, and would cancel that one, but for the politics.

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[94SilverCab]

Being on a waiting list only means that you are hoping for an allocation. Once the allocation is delivered to you, then you can opt to purchase or not at your discretion.

 

Saxum was my first long list, and I see that they have continued to deliver consistently high scoring wines year over year, so yes, I will be purchasing my allocation when it becomes available.

 

To make matters worse, after I purchase my first allocation, I will likely lay it down for 8-10 years...I will likely be forced to collect Social Security before I ever sip a drop.

 

JMHO,

 

Jay

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