[happysails2you]

Hi guys,



So I'm almost done with winter fix-ups -- new speakers and sound system, new convertible top, recovered door panels, removal of old stoneguards and minor paint work, new brakes and rotors all around, refurbished wheels, new tires, and routine maintenance. That was on top of last year's replacement of amost everything rubber (hoses, gaskets, wires, etc) and new belts and tensioners...ouch!



I made the mistake of putting all my and PO's maintenance records into a spreadsheet -- well, the mistake was doing SUM<D:6-D:20> for the last two years I've owned my 968. My only solace is that it's not QUITE what I paid for the car. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



That started me thinking about car insurance. I know I'll never see my investment back, and that's fine because I LOVE MY 968....she's priceless to me. But it would be nice to be able to agree on the value of the car with an insurance comany and insure her appropriately.



The car is garaged at my house, is my second car for weekends, has 52,000 miles, gets less than 5,000 miles a year (for now, hasn't been on road trips yet), never sees snow, only sees rain by accident, is never in rush hour and not in a high crime city. So there's gotta be a way to insure it for a reasonable value for not too much $$.



I looked at two classic insurance companies, and one only does true show cars (no pleasure miles) and the other (Hagerty) covers shows and some limited pleasure miles. The second had me nervous because I'm sure they'd find a loophole if the car's stolen from a restaurant parking lot. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/glare.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> I see ads in some of the mag's for other classic car insurance companies, some claim unlimited pleasure miles.



Did a search and didn't see anything here on the forum about insurance. I have a standard GEICO policy now, and they say they'd only go by Kelly BB and maybe consider some of my receipts, but not much above BB. They won't consider insuring for an agreed-upon value, as Hagerty would for example. Wonder if other insurers would?



What do you guys use for insurance? Can you share your experience with insurance companies?



Appreciate your help! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Anchorman]

Since I put more than 20k miles per year on my 968, I can't help on the insurance issue. I will comment, though, that I'm jealous of what you've done recently, and that - without doing some of what you've done (which I sort of need to do), I have spent more on the car than I spent to purchase the car. But, since the car is my "golf", ROI is not the issue.

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[RPM]

Unfortunately you will never get the money you have invested out of an older car if it comes to an insurance claim. However, you can bolster your position if that bad day ever comes. You have taken the first step and kept meticulous records that speak to the car's overall condition. A good set of photographs will back the records up.



You might also consider getting a PCA Valuation if you are a member. This document, considered by most decent insurance companies in any payment discussion, details the value of the car. PCA valuations often are higher than any KBB number. The annual 924/944/968 values issue of Excellence is also handy. For example, KBB lists my car's private party retail value at up to $10,750. The 2007 Excellence value for the car is up to $15,225.



All of this evidence together will help you negotiate a settlement if it ever came to that. And that is what it will be, a negotiation. Remember too that if someone hits your car the negotiation may be with a company that is not your own.



As for insurance companies... everyone has an opinion. I have had USAA for over 20 years. I know that the suggestions I have made above carry weight with them.

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[sasilverbullet]

I was an insurance agent for a little while...this is all my opinion, take it with a grain of salt.



Geico is cheap, for a reason. Lot's of horror stories floating around different Porsche forums over the years. They don't like to pay up...



You get what you pay for...if you want good coverage, and a company that doesn't argue with you about the value of the car, it's going to cost some bucks.



I personally use USAA, I know a lot of folks can't get in with them, but if you can, they're reasonable and they don't argue about claims and I've never heard any horror stories on the forums. They just gave me a new hatch on my comp policy that cost them $7,000, with my $500 deductible!



Search around, be picky... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

lots of ways to go for sure - while there are those who have not had issues, horror stories abound with the low rate companies - this all makes sense if you think about it too - companies stay in business by charging more than they pay out - a company that pays claims easily and fully has to charge more



so, you get what you pay for



there are a couple of compaines out there that will insure your car for a stated value - this will at least allow you to get what you paid for the car if you total it or lose it - there are limitations to the coverage though



personally i use AAA - the multi-policy discounts, and multi-year discounts have proven to result in the rates being reasonable for the coverage i want - again, it goes to the profit concept - they figure that by getting it from me for all the cars and the house, and me staying with them, they will end up still making money on me - they are right - they have been very easy when it comes to filing a claim and getting paid though



larry is an agent and can probably tell you a lot more about the specifics of companies and policies and such

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[chris]

I think this has been said, but classic car insurance companies is not the way to go.



Stick with the usual companies, and just be prepared to fight for the value should anything ever happen. Most of the evidence mentioned should cover the real value of the car. Modifications rarely ever can be fully covered, but be sure to ask your insurance company. Liberty Mutual actually asked me if I had any modifications that I wanted covered (on my Infiniti)

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[VGM911]

I like the concept of an insurance company that writes coverage for "collector cars." Through strong underwriting standards and requirements, risk is carefully managed and claims payments are thereby minimized. Who benefits? The insurance company and the policyholders (via lower premium payments).



Leland West advertises in Panorama, and is the company I used to insure my 912E. Restrictions/conditions of coverage? Less than 2,500 miles or 5,000 miles per year (my choice), kept in a locked garage overnight, and not to be used for commuting or errands. You must produce proof that you have another car to use as your primary vehicle. The most important feature to me was the "agreed value." If, for example, your car has a book value of $3,000 but it's worth $11,000, then you can insure it for $11,000 and your premium will be based on that amount. No need to fight with a regular insurance company that wants to pay your claim at book value.



When you travel away from home with the car (i.e., overnight), they realize that you can't keep it in your locked garage. It's not a problem with the company. They know that we're careful drivers and that we baby our cars. I think my annual premium was about $250.



To judge for yourself, go online or call them and ask for a quote. Then compare it to GEICO or any other insurer. Let us know what decision you make. Good luck!

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[Larry Currie]

Kathy, for a weekend car State Farm offers a Classic Car Policy which gives you stated value. You'll have to tell the agent that you use your car for shows and parades only. [I feel like I'm in a parade every time I drive mine] <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> You'll also have to tell your agent you drive it less than 2000 miles a year. They'll never check on you. I drive more than that, but I feel that if the mileage is checked by an underwriter, the fact we have to drive to other states and Etc. for our shows would make it Okay. I didn't have any problem insuring mine for a stated value of $30,000.



GEICO is not always the cheapest with premium. We replace their policies everyday. But, when you have a claim you will find them to be cheap.



If an agent in your area isn't aware of the policy, I'll be glad to help.

Larry

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[happysails2you]

Thanks guys. Keep posting notes of any other experiences. I'll check with State Farm (they cover my house) and some other traditional insurers, plus Leland West and any others I find in the mag's. Will let you know what I learn and what I eventually decide. Glad to hear what your stated value is, Larry. Funny, $28-30K is actually what I want to insure the car for, based on my purchase price plus improvements.



One concern I have is that if I state I drive it for shows or parades and it's stolen from a movie theater lot they could have grounds to deny coverage. If there's an accident, and they see higher mileage on the odometer than what the policy says I'd drive on average each year, they could also have grounds to deny coverage.



I lived through an insurance nightmare <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> with the car carrier who brought my car up from Florida. He caused $3700 in damage -- body damage (gouge in back bumper, scratches and nicks on doors), plus he tied it down incorrectly which caused other problems like control arm damage and excessive vibration which caused a fuel line rupture. His insurance company agreed that the carrier caused all the damage (thanks to lots of photos, PPI, and lots of documentation), but they refused to cover the claim because he "failed to properly secure the vehicle" or to "exercise care and caution" in moving the car. Thus he did not do as the policy required of him, so they would not cover the claim or defend him in court. Insurance companies will find any loophole to avoid paying out a claim these days. BTW, I filed a grievance with the state insurance commission and they found in favor of the insurer for the reasons cited and the language of his policy. Ultimately, after six months with no success with the car carrier, I was just about to sue when they came through with $3100 of the $3700, which I took. So that's why I'm cautious about what insurers will do after the fact. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/unsure.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> But I'll take a look at what's out there as options.



Thanks again for everyone's input!

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[Larry Currie]

It is up to the agent and underwriter to proper class the car, so there would not be a problem if it was stolen from any where. Track damage is not covered under the State Farm policy. If you have your home with State Farm you will pick up a discount for it if you insure all your cars with them. Good luck!

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[badberry68]

I use classic car insurance for my 968 and my 1968 Camaro; has anyone had to make a claim because of an accident? Just wondering if it's tough getting paid-- but I have no choice because it is my only way to affoard insuring three cars.

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[Larry Currie]

The difference between a classic car policy and a regular auto policy is with classic the value is established at the time the policy is written. On the other hand, with a regular policy the value is established at the time of the claim. If you are with a good company, you'll have no problem. The only problem I've had is with a adjuster who did not understand how the policy read, and he was trying to compare the totaled car to market value. After I read him the policy he paid the stated value. [value of having an agent <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ]

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[Mark]

[quote name='sasilverbullet' post='31317' date='Feb 22 2007, 01:00 PM']I personally use USAA, I know a lot of folks can't get in with them, but if you can, they're reasonable and they don't argue about claims and I've never heard any horror stories on the forums. They just gave me a new hatch on my comp policy that cost them $7,000, with my $500 deductible![/quote]



Your the reason my annual check from USAA was so low. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Darth Vadar]

I use State Farm Stated Value Coverage for all of my cars older than ten years. My Agent offered me different total annual miles for different rates, but the price is still incredibly low! My 1992 968 coupe is just $70.00 for 6 months coverage, at a stated value of $15,000.00, and 5,000 miles driven, with NO restriction on where those miles may lead... to a car show or a shopping mall makes no difference.

Of course, NO coverage for any track event, but... c`est la vie!



Of course, I live in BumF..k Indiana, so that may play a large part in the low rates... most people think when I say "Porsche", I am mispronouncing "Porch"... They always look at me rather strangely when I talk about G forces..

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[cosimo]

So, is there anywhere to get insurnace for track events (DE)?

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[flash]

darth - that's full coverage? what limits? that's amazingly low - you can't get a pinto covered for liability here for that

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[VGM911]

[quote name='flash' post='31453' date='Feb 24 2007, 09:40 AM']darth - that's full coverage? what limits? that's amazingly low - you can't get a pinto covered for liability here for that[/quote]



Flash, be glad that you're not in New Jersey. Our car insurance is reputedly the highest in the nation. Ugh.

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[Larry Currie]

He says $15,000 stated value. It sounds really low even for a classic car. I think I pay $200+ for high limits of liability and $30,000 stated value.

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[flash]

wow - i've been hunting extensively and the best i could do in coverage on one of those policies was $300,000 - not nearly enough around here



if you know of somebody that will do stated value of 60k plus, and million dollar coverage, let me know - hopefully it will be somewhat reasonable in premium, but that is very likely the fall down point in the plan

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[bob blackwell]

Kathy, one of the Insurance Companies that insure for "agreed value" that I have heard good things about is Grundy Collector Car Insurance. www.grundy.com Good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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