watching the results come in last night, it went pretty much as i expected. i'm not sure why people thought it was going to be closer than it was. there was such a huge gap between the republican platform, and what most people think, and at an increasing rate.
the republicans steered their campaign toward (pardon the term, but it's accurate) the "low income bible-thumping redneck conservatives". they tried to tell people that the country was going down the tubes because of the (again pardon the term) "liberal socialists". they won those states. it's not surprising. it's very easy to scare people who don't read a lot, or spend any real time investigating things for themselves, and just sit on the couch at night and let the boob tube wash over them. that's old school. what they failed to recognize is that people generally pay more attention now, as they are better informed and connected via the internet. tragic tactical error.
what they also failed to do was to adequately address and embrace the largest group of voters, and the largest growing group of voters. you can't win elections like that.
if they want to continue to exist, their approach to some key areas is going to have to change dramatically.
1. they are going to have to leave alone the woman's right to choose. with 3 supreme court positions very likely to open up in the next 4 years, this one is not going away. they need to get used to it. there are more women than men in this country, and single women vote more than single men.
2. the latino vote is not going to get smaller. they are currently 10% of the vote. that cannot be ignored. it certainly cannot be alienated. the republican position on immigration is going to have to change. we are going to have to make a place for immigration in this country, and we will have to provide services for them while they become established. that means a publicly provided basic health care plan and job training and education programs. our middle class would grow immensely if we took advantage of that.
3. like it or not, gay marriage is becoming a reality. with the full faith and credit requirements, this will change the nation. the conservative bible-thumping posturing will not do well in coming elections. as it becomes more commonplace, the natural tendency of that group to be liberal will have more of a voice.
regardless of any other political points of view, these things are going to define future elections.
the other big issue to be accepted is that we cannot continue to be the world's police force. we have seen what that does to our economy every time we try to do that. it happened with reagan. it happened with bush. how many times are we going to do that before we wake up? yes, there are very real issues overseas, but the burden of dealing with it cannot be borne by the u.s. alone.
there must be change toward the middle. the democrats have seen it too. their positions have had to shift, realizing that every program cannot survive. it's the natural way of things though. the pendulum swings both ways, and ultimately ends up in the middle.
my hope is that we can abolish the party system altogether. far too much time effort and money is spent polarizing and paralyzing. i think too many people get caught up in the politics, and forget what government is supposed to be. we need more of it in some areas, and less in others. if we could forget about party agenda, and deal with the issues one by one, i think we would come to agreements much more quickly.
i think nevada has it right. "none of the above"
i yield the floor
Well said Flash,well said.
yeah - i don't really have any political polarization (lol - though my wife keeps trying to convince me i'm a republican). i have views that fall on both sides of the fence, depending on the issue. i think most people are like that. however, i always am amazed and dumbfounded by the process, and continually surprised by people, both those who exceed my expectations by being more informed and aware than i anticipated, and by those who refuse to get outside the bubble.
it will be interesting to see how things go. for this term, i think we will see pretty much the same recovery and progress rate that we have seen for the last few years. things are getting better, even if it isn't as fast as some would like to see. fast isn't always good though, so this may turn out to be for the best.
i also think we will see a shift in how people approach elections, both from a candidate standpoint, and a voter one. voters are getting more and more information than they used to. scare tactics are going to have less of an effect. romanticizing about days gone by will too. it's a global economy now, and we are all part of a very diverse world. it's getting smaller, and as a result more viewpoints are coming into play, and more people are finding themselves on both sides of the political fence. that will most assuredly upset the 2 party process.
hopefully the current situation will force people to do some real across the aisle work, and set the tone for the future. there just isn't any room in tomorrow for narrow minded polarized thinking.
what i will be watching is the next election. that will be the real indicator of where things will go.
Given the state of the US economy and the HUGE debt load, I am surprised that the population decided to "stay the course". Well... that's not entirely true, since the House is mostly Republican. That unfortunately means that the next four years may turn out to be "wasted years", at least from an economic position.
I believe tha Obama cares about the "middle class", but his interpretation of "middle class" is to set the bar at a MUCH lower level than the American population has been used to. His agenda shows that he is determined to make the US a more socialist state. That appeals to those who feel OR are told they are "down and out" and that the government will now take care of ALL your problems. As a result of implementing policies that are driven by that agenda, the "down and out" portion of the population will continue to grow in the future, and the "American Way" will be something you can read about in history books.
The biggest problem with American politics is the fact that there are only TWO parties. As a result you now have a population that is completely polarized right down the middle! And yet... those that voted Democrat are for sure not all "on the same page", and the same can be said about those that voted Republican. That means that MOST Americans are not truly represented, because they have to try and make their personal positions fit into one of two alternatives. (The Canadian system is also flawed in this respect, since there are only three main parties here.) Having many political parties with varied views on social and economic issues, leads to a population that feels they are better represented by their elected oficials. It is true that to form a ruling party coalitions need to be formed, but that is a necessity if you live in a diverse society.
It saddens me to see that the US is more divided and polarized today than years ago when I started paying attention to what is going on in the political arena. Yet, in a democracy (and that is open to various interpretations) the people will receive the government they deserve, either because they voted certain individuals into power OR they neglected to get involved in the process!
My American friends, I wish you well in the next four years. It is my hope and prayer that your newly elected oficials may understand that they were elected to SERVE the people and not their own interests (sadly I do not have much hope that is going to happen...)
Jeb Bush vs. Hillary Clinton in '16 - so says Jon Stewart!
[quote name='bombfactory' timestamp='1352309859' post='134520']
Jeb Bush vs. Hillary Clinton in '16 - so says Jon Stewart!
[/quote]
The "end" is near!!!
lol - i am curious as to who will be next. ryan stands no chance. i don't think hilary does either. a democrat latino from texas would probably be the best bet. wait - didn't they do that on tv?
[quote name='flash' timestamp='1352311008' post='134523']
a democrat latino from texas would probably be the best bet.
[/quote]
That's not a bad idea!
Maybe even a republican latino as well... (do those even exist?)
either way, a candidate with diametrically opposed origins
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That's not a bad idea!
Maybe even a republican latino as well... (do those even exist?)
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Isn't Romney one? He kept claiming during the campaign that his dad was from Mexico! (His grandparents were on vacation in Mexico when grandma went into labor).
Christie will be next, He was hugging Obama pretty tight after Hurricane Sandy. I think he forgot all about his buddy Romney
OK, let's set the stage. I must be, by previous post, a "low income, bible thumping, red neck, conservative."
Yet, somehow, (between frequent rebuilding of my 968 engine) I read a lot, investigate things, listen to both msnbc and fox news, have advanced degrees, run a small business, have a 41 year marriage and kind of love life.
In my opinion, the previous and next president was and will be an empty suit. Coming into the presidency with no experience in much of anything (other than speech making) he made countless promises, many/most of which went unkept. The economy is in terrible shape, and the major response was blame something else, someone else, anything else. Frankly I got tired of it and did hope for a change last night. Remember that famous phrase from Watergate? "Follow the money!" Take a look at the stock market, and you'll see what yesterday's results got us. That stock market is not just a plaything for the "rich." It is the pension plan for tens of millions, it is the IRA, it is the 401(k), it is the investment for the next factory, it is a symbol of strength and prosperity that the whole world looks at every day. And it tanked.
There is no doubt that the President can be an inspiring orator and that his "progressive" views look appealing to some. But the media bias that presents him as a messiah totally ignores the results.
No one knows or will ever know whether or not Romney would have done better. We must live and do the best with what we've got. I pray, yes pray, that God continues to bless our country.
I don't think the next election will matter. The timing belts on this 968 of a nation are broken. We needed to pull off immediately and replace them. But we've chosen to keep on driving and hoping that the belts fix themselves. Driving like this for 4 more years is going to do irreperable damage to the engine. It will be so far gone by then that no mechanic will be able to fix it. We can order a new one, of course ... but how would we ever afford the cost plus the labor.
The U.S. is destined for the crusher.
Stay the course!! Damn the tarpedos!!! Full speed ahead!!
The real shame is the outlandish amount of money that is spent each and every election by both parties. There should be a limit to just how much money could be spent by each party. The American people are restricted to a choice of only two people, neither of which I might want to vote for. Every 4 years we are fed a load of crap and end up having to vote with a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea. Who is the lesser of two evils? Oh, by the way I am proud of being called a "Red Neck", but I'm no thumper. I served my country for over 20 years in the military and am proud of every year, so many of us has served for our fellow man and gave up a "Normal Life." War is HELL and only benefits, money wise, the so called "Upper Class." I guess I am called "Middle Class", but then our country is and has always been supported by the "Middle Class."
There are so many people that are brilliant but have a total lack of common sense.
Cheers,
Larry
i think too many people listen to the ads on tv, and don't really look at where things are. the economy is much better than it was 4 years ago. we lost 9 million jobs and filled 5 milllion. people forget that clinton got the unemployment rate down from 7.5% to only 4%, but as soon as bush came in it went on the climb to 6 and then hovered about 5. we were up at almost 10%. half of that is now recovered. the stock market is doing pretty well. we have made back 2/3 of what was lost in the crash (low of 7500, peak of 15000, now at just about 13000). the real estate market is back on the rise. all of this information is out there and easy to find.
almost everyone i know is doing better than they were 4 years ago. i can count on one hand the number of people i know who are not working. things are not nearly as bad as some people would like you to think.
is it perfect? heck no. are we there yet? not a chance
remember, the reason we got into this mess was the previous 8 years of irresponsible economics. you build an economy from the middle, not from the top. you sustain it by feeding it from the bottom. you can't have 2 wars on a credit card and not pay the bill. that's pretty basic stuff. short term patch economics is destined for long term debt.
does that mean that i think obama has all the answers? nope. i think there have been plenty of mistakes. does that mean that i wanted to throw the baby out with the bath water? nope. i'm not and have never been a fan of obama, but romney was going to be a trainwreck. sure, he would have put people to work in private sector defense contractor jobs, and in the short term that sounds great, but that bill has to be paid, and we've seen how that goes too often. i enjoyed it when i was doing defense work, but i also see the problem. his energy plan was also extremely flawed and while in the short term might look good, would head us toward a long term problem. the long term answer is not drilling, but alternative renewable sources, and he had no intention of going there.
one of the biggest problems that romney had was insisting on reversing obama-care. while i think obama-care is flawed, the idea is sound. we must provide health care for everyone. the private sector won't do it without profit in it. that leaves a huge gap in a group that needs it the most. you can't tell 40% of the working class that they have to live without health care. we need to figure that one out and come up with a basic provision for those who can't afford it, give credits to companies that provide it for their employees, and regulate the hell out of it so that unchecked profit is not the motivator. without a healthy middle class, we have no products to sell, and therefore no tax base to fund anything.
fixing an economy takes at least as long as it took to screw it up. we can look at that one over history. i am hopeful and optimistic. i absolutely think we are more on the right track than the wrong one. however, nothing will work if the republicans are going to be sore losers, and stagnate the process. nothing will work if the democrats get too high and mighty and go nuts and try to tax the heck out of us and spend too much money. they need to allow extreme defense cuts, and they need to allow programs that build from the bottom. if those two things don't happen, it won't matter about the rest.
I believe in 4 years we will have a President Rubio come in to fix the $22T in debt, over 10% unemployment, and massive government monster Obama will have created. That is what you get with Socialism. Take a look at Europe. Take a look at Greece. That is where he is taking us in a 2nd term. I pray I am wrong.
i hear that socialist crack all the time. it's hardly that. i'm one of the ones that the dems want to tax the crap out of, so you would think that i would be the last one to support bottom up building. however, i know what works and what doesn't, being a bit of a student of history. all governments that focus on the top end fail. it's been that way since the beginning of time. when the upper end ignores the bottom and forgets where the money comes from, it falls apart.
socialism doesn't work either in large scale. i wish it did, but greed always messes it up.
unfortunately capitalism doesn't work. when profit is the sole motivator, and people are involved, the greater good is always sacrificed for the short term gain. clearly we cannot trust people to solve the problems we have if we allow them to make decisions based on profit. that is why we need government regulation of critical industries (like the banks and the medical industry).
gutting the defense spending will resolve a lot of the imbalance. as long as we aren't at war anywhere, we will get control of the budget. that has always been the case. cutting the cord on mid-eastern oil will remove the reason for those continuing conflicts. coming up with an alternative to oil will make that permanent. that is an untapped industry that can happen right here.
none of this is going to come easily. none of it will happen right away. nothing moves slower than government progress. getting people to agree is the hardest thing to do. but that's what you get in a democratic process.
democracy is the worst form of government.....................except for all the rest
My largest frustration is that people vote by perception, not by the capabilities and proposed policies of the candidate. For example, nobody really knows specifically what Obama will do since he never committed to anything. I think Romney was somewhat more specific. Obama's entire campaign for the past 6 months has been "Romney-bashing", that was true in the debates as well, not a bad campaign strategy but should that be the principle reason to vote for someone? Vote for them because they are good at campaigning? Should we re-elect an incumbent because they are good at bashing the challenger rather than running on their record or proposed policies?
I see these as the 4 largest risks for the US:
- the national debt
- effects of climate / weather (or climate change)
- terrorism (of major infrastructure or at the nuclear level)
- the general sloth and entitlement attitude of too many people in the US. (Tied to jealousy of "the haves") If people aren't giving their best each day, but are sitting around waiting for their fair share, or waiting to be handed the job they deserve, any country will self-destruct.
And neither candidate went very far in addressing all of these risks. Instead we are dinkin' around with issues of very little consequence like birth control and gay marriage. It just seems like people have accepted the federal government as some kind of independent entity rather than understanding that the federal government serves us, it is our government, we hired those people, a government should not seen as some autonomous entity.
funny - i think it is exactly the opposite. all i got from romney was pie in the sky empty pollyanna promises, and they kept shifting throughout the campaign. with obama all i had to do was read the budgets. it is pretty easy to see what the plan is from that. i didn't like a lot of it, but at least i could see it. most people wouldn't do that though, so all they get is what they see on commercials.
i hated all the negative ads. they came from both camps. i don't think it did anything but sour more people on the process. voter turnout was down, and i think that may have been a big reason.
we really should ban political commercials, and just put the candidates on tv in better debate-like formats. the people own the airwaves, not the networks. the fcc granted the use of the airwaves to the networks in exchange for 1 hour a night of news. now we let them have commercials during the news, and even the news programming itself seems to be becoming commercialized. they now just repeat the same 20 minutes of "news" over and over, and it's all strung together with commercials. we need to take that back and give the candidates air time free of charge. that would eliminate the power of the superpacs. it would remove the polarized bashing and negativity. it would give the voting public a better read on the candidates. it would give them a better understanding of the positions.
obama's record was actually pretty good, considering where things started. we're definitely on the way back. read the above summary. it's not nearly what romney's camp would have liked you to think. it isn't perfect, and certainly not as far along as what we might want, or what we were told it might be, but it isn't as bad as it has been claimed.
i don't want to see somebody get something for nothing either, and i think people should have to work or go to school or give back to the community for the assistance they get. but we can't stop assistance if we want to maintain and build the working class, which is necessary if we are to survive as a nation.
i think you are right about the focus. we have much bigger fish to fry than silly social issues. we need to leave those people alone and get on with the real problems.
We do have the basis for health care for all those who don't have insurance. It's called Medicaid. Rules could be changed to include those in the middle class who don't have insurance, can't afford it or whose employers don't offer it. What is often overlooked in the zeal to provide insurance for whatever number of people who don't currently have it is, where are all these primary care docs going to come from. Older docs are retiring faster than new docs come on board. One reason is that hospitals can only afford and accommodate so many residency programs. Residency programs cost money. ever hear that funding will be expanded for this.? You haven't because it hasn't been addressed. Docs now opt out of Medicaid because the reimbursement is too low to cover even their minimal costs. Know what precert is? This came about and exploded with managed care. Think a public system of health care won't resort to even a more administered system of precert? Think again. Has your health insurance premiums. gone down as promised? Like the returns you get on your investments? All of the monies spent by the government result from their ability to finance new debt through low interest rates. Low interest rates are great if your refinancing. What rate does a CD or money market offer? We all are taking it on the chin with are inability to grow our retirement accounts. The middle class unknowingly is missing the fact that their golden years will be one of deprivation and or poverty. Oh, by the way did you realize how many people will have to work in their 70's to make ends meet. I said to make ends meet, not to live in the type of retirement that most think of when they think of retirement. Public pensions are so under funded that we couldn't raise taxes enough to cover the shortfall. Even if the partisan class warfare included taxing the middle class there isn't enough money to raise.
I'm in healthcare and I've not talked to anyone in healthcare that thinks the changes coming will be what they have been presented as or that anything good will come about from them. The only thing interesting for me is we now have to scramble to figure out how to chuck and weave to maintain our competitiveness and profitability. All this in a period of uncertainty and no real place to find answers as yet. It's akin to running forward with a person that is bleeding and needs help. Only your running in the dark and hoping like heck you don't bang in to something, miss your turn or get lost.
We the people have chosen. It's what makes this country great. We have managed to overcome adversity before and we will again. Just how many will we leave behind? I'm going to wax my car!!!!! Lol