Just had my belts done by my shop. Car now vibrates at around 3500 to 4000 rpm. Didn't do that before the belt job. I also had my clutch replaced. From everything I have read, it sounds like a classic case of having the lower sprocket on the lower shaft installed in the wrong key way.
The mechanic thinks there is nothing wrong, but I know my car and the vibration is way too high.
My question is how long should it take for the mechanic to disassemble the belt cover etc to be able to check the key way orientation? I am going to demand they check it but am wondering how much labor will be at stake if everything turns out to be correct and maybe the problem turns out to be my DMF.
Thanks for any advice that anybody can provide.
For someone that has done it before, it shouldn't take more the 10-15 minutes to pull the front cover off and roll it over to TDC and check the marks on the two balance shaft sprockets.
Thanks Bandit! That's exactly what I needed to know.
Sounds like I should be able to stop in at my shop and have it checked while I watch...
I know you had to pull out the airbox and the belt cover, but wasn't sure if more was needed to get to the lower sprocket.
I'm assuming you also need to take out the bolt and washer on the lower sprocket to see the orientation of the keyway.
Is that easy to do? I don't need to put in a flywheel lock or anything?
Also, can you give me any guidance on how to roll it to TDC?
I'm considering checking it myself if it's easy.
Thanks again for your help!
Jamie
to roll it to TDC, pull the spark plugs to relieve the compression resistance, and then put a socket on the crank bolt and rotate the engine. you can then insert a long screwdriver in the #1 spark plug hole to determine exactly where TDC is, taking car not to let it get jammed in there
yes, you need to see the keyway. you may or may not need to remove the bolt and retaining plate behind it.
Hi Flash! It's been a while. Thanks for chiming in!
Do I need to do anything special to remove the bolt from the bolt and retaining plate?
I'm imagining that the sprocket will turn while I torque the bolt free, or else put undue tension on the belt.
Also, will I have all of the access I need to do the inspection and bolt removal after I remove the air box and belt cover, or do I need to remove something else or put the car in the air?
I found lifting the car a bit helped to get a better angle on the lower inspection hole. The upper cover is not a problem to remove.
The question that still remains involves what the mechanic did prior to the onset of the vibration. If it was just belts, there would be no reason to remove the pulley from the balance shafts, hence there would be no issue with the key-ways, assuming everything was OK prior to the belts. If the seals were replaced, then there is a chance the pulleys are on the shafts incorrectly. My guess is that the balance shaft(s) just are off a tooth, which is easy to do because the visual angle on the lower one creates a parallax error that can easily cause it to be off a tooth.
Matt
Thanks for the info Matt!
Yes, the pulleys had to come off because they needed to replace the back part of the belt cover. Apparently the screw holes where the front cover attached were corroded beyond use.
You mention an inspection hole for the bottom pulley. I'm picturing that some additional disassembly will be required to get sufficient access to remove the bolt and plate/washer on the lower pulley and see the keyway orientation. Or will it be relatively simple after getting the upper belt cover off?
Also, is there anything special I need to do to hold the pulley steady as I loosen the bolt, or just put a wrench on it and turn?
Balance shaft pulleys are counter weighted so it is very easy for them to slip when your installing the belt and adjusting the tension.
Sounds to me like you are off a tooth. I had that happen and my car behaved exactly as you describe
Sounds like everybody is on the same page.
What I''m trying to decide now is whether I should:
1) Do what my shop recommended and ignore the problem
2) Perform an inspection of the belt and pulley to see if it is off by a tooth or the lower pulley is in the wrong keyway
3) Take the car back to the shop and demand they do the inspection of the belt and keyway
If it's not too difficult, I prefer option 2. The downside of option 3 is that if it turns out that the problem is something else, I may end up with another couple hundred dollars of labor to pay for. I'm also paranoid that they may do what was described in one of the other threads and tell me they checked it and it was good, even though it's bad.
Can anybody tell me whether I will be able to inspect the keyway problem on the lower pulley by simply removing the airbox and upper belt cover and removing the bolt and washer over the pulley? Or is there more to it?
The answer will drive me to either option 2 or 3.
Thanks
I took some good pics of the orientations here that might help, in my thread titled "head refresh project"
http://www.968forums.com/topic/15055-my-...ect/page-2
(Still cant figger out how to put hyperlinks to other threads, sorry)
Oh, I guess the hyperlink worked this time! Good
It's pretty easy to take the front belt covers off and see exactly what you need to see regarding alignment marks.
Most likely a mistake will be obvious without having to dig deeper to look at the keyways. So at least make sure the alignment marks that are easily visible look correct
I had a similar experience. Took it back to Max the next day and he took care of it in about 10 minutes. You paid for the job to get done the right way...why not take it back and keep an eye on what they are doing to fix it? I would understand if you wanted to learn how to do it yourself, but you did pay for it. If it's funky when you leave...turn around and make them get it right. JMHO
Yes, Ernie is correct, you paid for the job to be done right, not to be done half way right. My mechanic a while back had the lower balance shaft off a tooth. It jumped when he was getting the belt on, and he made it right and apologized as well.
If you look at the PET, you will see a small inspection hole in the lower cover. You can look through the hole with a mirror and a good light source and see if it's correct when you have the engine on TDC and the top balance shaft all lined up.
Spend more time diagnosing before you do any fixing. Getting the lower cover off is not that difficult, but why do it if you don't have to?
Also if the vibrations get strong enough you can crack the oil pickup.
Thanks for the advice everybody!
My plan is to take it back and see what they can do.
It's too cold to do much in my garage this time of year, and now I'm afraid to drive it for fear of a cracked oil pickup tube.
Will let you know what I find.
Will be taking the car back on Friday to have the balance Shaft belt checked.
When I made the appointment I asked if the balance shaft pulleys had been removed when they replaced the back side of the belt cover that was corroded. They said that they hadn't removed them. If that's true, then I don't have to worry that the pulley was installed on the wrong keyway.
Can anybody tell me if the back of the belt cover can be replaced without removing the pulleys on the balance shafts?
Not that I don't trust them, but I want to be sure before writing off that possibility.
The can be, but the issue isn't the keyway. It's that they are counterweighted, so if you line up the pulley mark with the mark on the cover, it's going to naturally want to turn away from that position because of the counterweight. So it's very easy for that pulley to turn when your putting the belt on our tightening it.
yes, but when that happens, and the cam swings down, it puts the keyway in the wrong position. so, while not specifically the problem, it is the indicator of the problem.
As Matt pointed out, we can rule out the potential for the pulley being mounted on the wrong keyway if the pulleys were never removed. Then we should be able to check that the belt and pulleys are oriented properly or not with a relatively simple inspection.
The question is whether or not they had to remove the pulleys during the replacement of the back belt cover. If so, then the next step after checking the belt would be to check the keyway orientation, assuming the belt and pulley orientation looks good. But that's a bigger job and I don't want to insist it be done unless the pulleys were removed.
If the back belt cover was removed, the pulleys had to come off.