I'm seriously considering a 968 as a weekend fun/tack car and was wondering how the car is in its stock form? Are the brake adequate with stainless lines, good pads and fluid? I would get an LSD if the car I found did not have one, but is anything else an absolute must from the start? Track days, not racing.
Thanks.
Chris
They're actually quite good right out of the box. They are kinda softly sprung, but still quite drivable.
Stock brakes need good fresh fluid (Ate Blue or better). You can run stock pads, but they'll be a weak point if you are getting all you can out of the brakes. A suitable track pad (I liked the KFP Magnums) will come in handy after your first few track days. You don't need to install stainless lines for occasional track days.
You won't need the LSD, per se. You will need a tire that can hold up and not blister. There are a few good street tires that can survive. There are also a few good track tires that seem to work pretty well on the street as well (Toyo RA-1 for example).
968's are a little tough on brakes and tires because they are a bit heavy (about 3100 lbs.). That's a lot of weight wearing on the friction-oriented parts.
Things I would consider a must (ranked in order of importance):
1) Car operating up to spec stock condition (good belts, cooling, brake operation, suspension tight, etc.).
2) Good street or track tires, properly inflated
3) A good alignment - You'll never experience Porsche's best without a good alignment, even if it's a street alignment.
4) A set of M030 sway bars. I would spend this $500 before even thinking about the LSD. Quick and easy flatter cornering.
All of the above assumes you take care of the safety bits as required.
I drove my first 944 bone stock in DE's for years before with only upgrade being progressively more capable brake pads. Amazing cars that you can drive right to the track, flog mercilessly all day, allow to cool, and drive home.
Most practical vehicle I've owned so far <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
I have the same experience with these water cooled, front-engine cars. Have used a 924S then a 944S2 and now a 968 for daily driving and regular track use (10 or 12 per year) and they are fine stock. More fun with the suspension stiffer and wider wheels and sticky tires, but just fine right off the showroom floor. Good luck and enjoy! Bob Blackwell.
i guess it's a perspective thing - i am having a very hard time imagining ever really enjoying this car in street trim on the track - it's just too big and heavy - after all though, it's not a sports car, so that is likely my biggest problem with it - but then, i come from cars not much more than half the weight, so it's really apples and oranges
to me, this is one of the sloshiest cars, out of the box, i've ever owned, have been spenind a lot of time and money trying to get it good eenough for me, and can't imagine enjoying it on the track in stock trim - i'm pretty sure it's mostly just the extra weight, and soft springs though
however, i can sure see how folks might think it's a handler and such if they've either been driving a buick or never driven a small sports car, but once you've driven a triumph, mg, fiat, or the like (basically any sub 2000lb sportscar), you suddenly have an entirely different perspective
but, that being said, as stock cars go, for track use, it's about as predictable as you can get, which for learning purposes, or for those who want to keep things on a budget, and have a dual purpose car, i guess this is a decent choice
myself, as soon as i get the new garage, i'm going to split off the street car from any track use, and build the race car - that should do it for me
tough call though from this side of the fence
if i were looking for a car that could crossover to the track even more easily, and spend even less, i would choose a 240Z, Datsun 510, MGBGT, 70s 1800 or 2000cc Totyota corolla - in ragtop form, it would be an MGB, triumph TR6, Datsun 2000 - all of these will cost half the 968 fully set up, be easier to compete, outhandle the 968 when properly set up, and be a heck of a lot more fun out of the box
none of them would turn heads, look as good, or have as many creature comforts - this is a decent road car, that can be fun on the track
gee - how was that for mixed emotions?
I can't WAIT to see what happens next on this thread.
lol - yeah - i can just imagine - i'll probably get zapped by the porsche gods for blasphemy too
i have a real love/hate thing going with this car - love the lines and comforts - hate how heavy, sloshy and slow it is - such is the difference between a road car and a sports car though, so i have nobody to blame but myself for choosing this one
but, remember, i bought it because i said "yeah, i can tear that car apart and set it up" - to me, it was just a good looking front engine, 2 seat, rear drive car with AC that i figured i could yank a few hundred pounds out of and stiffen up to reasonable specs and go play with
at that , it's pretty tough to beat as a decent compromise, especially since these things are so cheap
it has been a fun challenge so far too, which is part of the attraction to me
Speaking personally, I'm really glad you choose this one. Your total lack of satisfaction with the status quo has provided, and I believe will continue to provide, benefits to all - but, most importantly (and selfishly) to me. Keep it up! And, best of all, there's no entertainment tax. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
lol - that's kind of how i look at it - i've always liked the underdog - this was a project for me - if i wanted a turn key fast car, i would have bought something else - i wanted to take something that had the beast lurking underneath waiting to be unleashed, but had style, grace and timeless lines
now, before i wax poetic, i suddenly have motivation to get onto finishing some new mods i worked up the other day
Well Flash, I do not know about others who agree with me that the 968 is an excellent handling car, even in stock form, but I have owned and enjoyed many lightweight sports cars to include a Lotus Europa, several Austin Healey Sprites and MG Midgets and a Porsche 356 SC coupe and a Porsche 912 Coupe. The 968 is a wonderful handling car in stock form. Even better with the M030 Sports Suspension and brakes and even better with other modifications. Those lightweight sports cars didn't even compare with the comfort and utility of my 968 and I would not trade for any of them! Good luck, Bob Blackwell.
lol - me either - that is the attraction of the car - it's a road car - by nature it is far more utilitarian and comfortable - that's why i bought it over others - i wanted to fit 2 sets of golf clubs and i wanted AC - no way to do either of those in my MGB, regardless of how much lighter, quicker, or better handling it was
apples and oranges - sports car versus road car
i'm older now and need my comfy seats and AC and such
not much chance of me trading either
[quote name='Anchorman' date='Apr 9 2006, 04:13 PM']I can't WAIT to see what happens next on this thread.
[right][post="18808"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
What would be refreshing is if Flash would refrain from diverting another thread into a conversation about himself and his needs.
Mr. Trahsub has asked about the 968 and how it can be set up for the track. A new member of this forum deserves some consideration.
Please see his original post and respond in kind, otherwise please keep your thoughts to yourself.
Pretty good track car, right out of the box. Even the engineers at Porsche have a special place in their heart for the 968.
Chris - Drive one and see what you think. Like all Porsche's, you can flog the car within an inch of it's life at the track and still take it to dinner. You might want to wash the brake dust off the wheels though <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
In my experience the 968 is an excellent car for track days - very highly recommended. I bought my '94 968 in 1999 strictly for track use. I had an absolute blast driving it in completely stock form in DE's for two years before I started modifying it for club racing. With nothing more than race pads, high temp fluid and track tires, I was consistently one of the faster guys in the instructor group.
An LSD is nice to have, so hopefully you can find a car so equipped. If not, then its probably worth adding at some point. The M030 items are also nice to have, but its very hard to find a natural M030 car. Equivelant or better parts can be added later if you want.
dave - i answered the question asked with my opinion, as asked
to clarify - NO, i do not think the 968 in stock trim would be good for the track - i would no sooner take it out there than my 325i - frankly, i don't think the car is all that great for spirited drives in stock trim either
i have had my 968 on the track in relatively stock trim, and will not do that again - it was far too slushy for me - the shifter is too sloppy - the clutch is too slow - the car is too heavy and slow for me to enjoy, and i find myself waiting for it to spool up too often, and not driving as fast as i know i could in another car
fortunately most of this seems to be correctable
but i have an entirely different perspective, which is why i responded the way i did
people race pickups and volvos though, so who is to say what is right and wrong?
to answer the question better, i would ask "what have you driven on the track before?" and/or "what are you used to?"
perhaps, but it is how i feel about the car - i really don't like it much at all in stock trim, and have much higher expectations of any car i would consider taking onto a track - but then, i never intended to keep it anywhere near stock, so, it still works for me
there are those who love it as is, and i think that's great - i'm not one of them, and i think it only responsible to express all points of view on the question asked
that is why baskin robbins makes 31 flavors though, right?
I was very suprised with this car at my first track day in it. At that point the car had Koni yellows, H&R springs, no cat, chip, and Toyo T1-S on 17 inch Cup II's. I was at sebring in the middle of the summer. If you've ever been there in the middle of the summer, it's about as hard as you can be on a car. The car held up very well, no brake fade, tires were great, no cooling problems in any regard (those brake ducts work very well for a stock car). As far as speed, I was passing 2000 up M3's like it was nothing. That was mostly due to driver skill level, but the 968 was holding up better in terms of brake fade and cooling than almost every BMW out there. My opinion: When you buy a porsche you get a track car that was built so that it can be drivin on the street. When you get something like an M3 you get a beefed up 3 series that isn't quite as tough as what you'll get with a porsche. I know that's not the question here, and i may get some beef, but honestly....these cars are amazing.
Are you considering any other Porsches? After a while, i got an 86 factory widebody carrera race car. Nothing street legal about it. The 968s are tough as nails, but if you are unsure about where you want to start and where you want to end up (in terms of modding the car) I think a carrera is a good way to go too. You can always start with say a 1980 SC and have a great car to have fun in stock. From there, the possiblities are endless. Drop in any air cooled motor, coilovers do wonders for those cars. I'm not bashing the 968, I love this car. I'm just saying if you want to build a track car and you're not sure how extreme you want to get, a 911 may be an option to look at.
best of luck
i know it's blashpemy here to knock the car, and i'm not knocking the durability or anything like that either - nothing broke, and i don't expect that it would have - it was just a lot slower and slushier than i was used to, and wanted from any car i would take on the track
so, to me, it goes to perspective - if youv'e been driving carts, this is a behemoth - if youv'e been driving a buick, this will seem like a toy
in either case, it's a fun car to play with
Like all 944 series Porsches, the 968 is an excellent platform for a street/track car, A well driven 968 with some basic modifications can be surprisingly fast. It's a very good combination despite a fairly primitive suspension on both ends. I've found that properly maintained, the systems are up to it as well.
As others have said, a more track oriented suspension, sticky R tires, some track pads and a track alignment will make a considerable difference over stock. If there is any budget left, get a 5 point and a race seat, both will significantly increase your confidence and safety.
The 968 used to be "THE CAR" to beat in SCCA autocross with many of the top 25 cars at the National Runoffs being 968s. As for the track, here is some video of my car on the track at our last PCA DE:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...4765818075.
My car is a stock M030 car with LSD. I do have the airbox mod and a chip and Pagid Orange pads on the front. I am also using Kuhmo Victoracers that were corded after the session in this video. In the video I am trying to catch the modified RS America in front of me but the other traffic keeps getting between us keeps me from getting any closer. The yellow Vette that passes me on the straight is a new 500 hp Z06. I think the 968 makes a fine car for the track right out of the box. Get one and join the fun.
mike