the general consensus seems to be that our cars are a bit on the heavy side in stock form for a 2+2 sporty road car. My question is. . . why?
Certainly looking at the progression 924-944-968 they gradually added poundage.However the 350z is 3200# also. . . so are we really heavy for a sporty road car?
I really love my stock car, the sound dampening, the comfy seats. Of course I'd love to reduce weight like anybody else but I don't want to give up the creature comforts.
So I have two questions then
- how heavy are we really to comparable cars?
- where is the weight coming from?
Steel vs aluminum frame? Heavy seats? Poorly executed exhaust? I mean . . . if there were easy/inexpensive ways to make the car lighter, Porsche would have done it, right? Besides seats and wheels, are there any no-brainer ways to save significant weight - by no-brainer I mean, isn't a compromise from stock re sound, ride, etc . . . ?
The '968 as a racer in stock form' thread got me thinking. . .
it's really an accumulation of a lot of small things
there is a LOT of rubber dampening in the way of mounts and such
have you counted how many screws hold on the door panels?
the wiring is very heavy - very odd wiring looms with a lot of back and forth wiring
the chassis itself is pretty hefty too
oddly, the body work is actually very light
there is a lot you can do - i've yanked 250# out of my cab (so far) with no loss in comfort or sound - i figure to be able to pull another 40 or so out of it without having to get into bodywork
A good place to start is where the factory lightened up the Club Sport and other specials like the 964 RS.
Seats, lighter glass, wiring loom, sound deadening, carpet thickness (and that crazy glue), deleting power accessories, lots of rubber as flash mentioned, etc.
Just a lot of "built to last" materials plus luxury items equals extra weight. Pete's RS Barn exhaust is a 38lb. savings over stock alone.....
The comparison to the 350Z is an interesting one. Probably a little more engine weight with that car, as well as current era safety equipment/construction. Its no secret that where Nissan spends money on engine R&D, it seems that it comes straight out of the interior materials budget, so I'd guess that's where the Nissan gains some of that weight back.
Dimensionally they are pretty similar, the same length within an inch and a half, with the Nissan a full 3 inches wider plus 10 more inches of wheelbase. That extra width will heavy up a car generally as well.
Then compare our cars to the Mazda RX-8...
http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.sbs?kbb...rnc&usedcarstab
Cheers,
-Mirror
[quote name='TheMirror' date='Apr 20 2006, 07:46 PM']Then compare our cars to the Mazda RX-8...
http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.sbs?kbb...rnc&usedcarstab[/quote]
checked out the rx8 via the url. . . not sure what you were referring to? 3050# and a lot less power. . . ? if you mean that our car is waaaay cooler, than, I'm with you! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
btw - I *love* Mazdas and esp the RX7 . . . but the RX8 just doesn't have the same sex appeal as its predecessor.
Yeah, I guess I did kinda leave a point out of there. Anyhoo, the RX-8 is another example of long wheelbase/wide car adding to weight. Not to say its THE factor, but physics is physics. Pretty cool lookin' though, and they have taken the reigns from the 968 in National B-Stock Solo as the weapon of choice (968 torch bearers Ron Bauer/Stephen Hui excepted of course).
http://www.bauerspeedracing.com/autocross/...t5_Run1_008.jpg
-Mirror
[quote name='ether_joe' date='Apr 20 2006, 08:15 PM']checked out the rx8 via the url. . . not sure what you were referring to? 3050# and a lot less power. . . ? if you mean that our car is waaaay cooler, than, I'm with you! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
btw - I *love* Mazdas and esp the RX7 . . . but the RX8 just doesn't have the same sex appeal as its predecessor.
[right][post="19550"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
A couple of things that came out of my car that surprised me with their weight were the airbags and the wood plate in the passenger footwell.
But, there are a lot of integral parts that add weight too: sunroof, rear seat backs, cruise control, popup headlights, etc.
[quote name='Clem' date='Apr 21 2006, 06:10 AM']A couple of things that came out of my car that surprised me with their weight were the airbags and the wood plate in the passenger footwell.[/quote]
yeah, that wood plate, 'sup with that??!? Mine's gone too.
the steel plate, to which all of the control electronics mount, isn't stiff enough to handle a forward impact during an accident, or even a long legged person pushing hard - it would bend and potentially short the electronics - i've seen a couple of them now that were bent - the wood is there to prevent that
bad design
but, mine is out too anyway
[quote name='flash' date='Apr 21 2006, 08:09 AM']the steel plate, to which all of the control electronics mount, isn't stiff enough to handle a forward impact during an accident, or even a long legged person pushing hard - it would bend and potentially short the electronics - i've seen a couple of them now that were bent - the wood is there to prevent that
bad design
but, mine is out too anyway[/quote]
oh, hmmmm. . . good information. I think maybe mine goes back in when my brain issue is resolved. Don't want a pair of long beautiful female legs bending my brain. . .
wait i think that's inevitable <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
You could go with Lexan windows, or at least the rear hatch on the coupe. Big savings there. Replace the seats and remove the airbags, are ways to lighten up the inside.