[TonyBray]

Guys,



I had a fun weekend. I am a charter member of the 912Registry and I plan the route for the annual St Patrick's Day run each year. In preparation for the event, I finished up my brake and suspension upgrade on my 67 912. Now, this was no minor upgrade. I am running Elephant racing bits everywhere (Poly bronze bushings, weather sealed monoballs, etc). Brakes were upgraded from non-vented to vented rotors with 911SC calipers up front and 67 911 S Calipers in the rear. My car also has a 2.0 type 4 from a 914 installed with a matching gear set in the transmission. I had a full 4 wheel alignment done with a corner-balance to top it off.



One of my buddys who happens to be the GM of Cardiff Classics in Encinitas needed a car to drive as his were all in various states of resto. This guys sells top end Ferraris, Porsches, and other exotics so I figured he could handle my 912. This gave me the opportunity to drive my 94 968 Cabbie (6-speed) on the run and compare it against my 912.



My other buddy has a 65 427 Cobra replica. While he didn't get to go on the full run, we did meet up for a private run afterwards with just the 3 (968, 912, and the Cobra).



While the 968 is a fantastic handling car, it would appear that I have done a great job on the 912. Here is a link to the stories on the 912BBS: 912BBS St Patty's day run Be sure to check the pics.



I'm TonyBray on that board, Mark Allen was driving my 912 and JoeA was the Cobra driver. It's interesting to read each of their comments on how the 3 cars compared.



Now, I did slide around a bit in the 968. I'm running Toyo Proxies on it with full stock suspension. The 912 is running Falken Azenis Sports, basically a street legal racing tire. The Cobra is running 275's up front and 300+ on the rear. I don't remember what brand of tires they were.



So, if I am able to make a 40 y/o tail dragger handle like that, what do I need to do to make my 968 handle that much better?



--Tony

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[H2Ojazz]

Oh, geez, I'm sorry. I thought this was the latest Excellence comparo. We are waiting for the one with the tractor and a 917.

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[TonyBray]

Well, just trying to share a good time. Do you have a tractor to loan?



--Tony

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[Mark]

Tony don't worry about a reaction or two, some people are little sensitive about comparisons around here after a couple of recent Excellence articles. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> I'm not surprised your 912 would out handle a stock 968 cab. Upgrading to the M030 Sways makes a hell of difference on the cab, bigger wheels and a suspension refresh like your 912 would probably have the 968 leaving the 912 behind in the curves like it does in the straights.



Looks like it was a good time and your choice of personal PCars shows you like to adopt red headed step children. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[bob blackwell]

Yeah Tony, it looks like you already know what to do: lower the car front and rear, get some negative camber at both front and rear, stiffen up the suspension and get the widest wheels with the stickiest compound tires that your Rules will allow. Go get 'em! Good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[TonyBray]

[quote name='Mark' post='32732' date='Mar 19 2007, 05:32 AM']Looks like it was a good time and your choice of personal PCars shows you like to adopt red headed step children. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />[/quote]



Yeah, we don't mention the 924 Turbo much at my house LOL!!



Personally, I was really surprised. Driving a 911 at speed is like throwing a dart backwards! However, the 912 with it's 4 cylinder is nearly 250lbs lighter passed the rear wheels than a 911. A stock 968, even a Cabbie with no M030 option, is no slouch in the handling department. Isn't it still rated as one of the top ten best handling sports cars?



Now, all things being fair, the roads we were on didn't allow the 968 or the Cobra to really use their horsepower to their advantage. But the 912 only has 100hp. Now, if I only had the 968 and I saw this 40 year old antique in my rear view at the entrance to my favourite twisties, I would be thinking to myself that I am about to have an early Porsche snack. I swear, if my buddy knew the roads and knew where we were going, he would have passed me! The reason I let him drive the 912 was that I expected to have way more fun in the 968 and would run off and leave him! Obviously that didn't happen.



Now, the Cobra is a 1965 replica. Sure, it's got 600hp and great big tires and a skidpad figure to die for. But think of what else was being produced by the big 3 in 60's. The Cobra and maybe the 'Vette are the only american iron I could imagine that would even come close to staying with either of the Porsches on a road like this. Of course, get either of them in their element and they would stomp both of my cars. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



So like I said, I was suprised at the outcome and wanted to share the story with everyone. Now to find out all the possibilities for upgrades on the 968 so this won't happen again LOL!!!



--Tony

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[Mark]

I was a amazed at what the M030 sways did all by themselves when I added them to my wife's 968, until that point I thought the car handled like crap and needed a whole new suspension. Once we did the sways it actually convinced me I could buy one and live with it. As Bob said adding negative camber front and back will also make a big difference but eat your tires faster.



I think those top ten best handling things were talking about the coupes and specifically the CS and not the cabs.

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[TonyBray]

Do the M030 sways affect daily drivability? I know there's a pinned topic on M030 stuff. I will read it when I get a chance.



--Tony

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[Mark]

Just stiffens things up enough to stop some of the roll from what I could tell. My wife has it on her daily driver so it can't be too bad.

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[flash]

i've driven both real and replica cobras a bit (though not in about 15 years now), big block and small block real ones, ford and chevy powered kits - i can tell you that how the replica handles depends a lot on which kit is and which suspension it has



the real ones are a handful in the best of circumstances, especialy the big blocks, and are regularly thrashed by lotus super sevens at sears point, with 1/4 the horsepower - the power helps the cobra not one bit in that scenario - it would be very similar on a tight mountain road - beautiful car - tons of fun to squish the pedal - i still want one - not the best handler



the kits can actually out handle the original by a wide margin, if they used the right suspension - some of them are cobbled together with bad geometry - some of them are really good - i drove one that was so bad it made me come right back to drop it off to the owner without even gettingit warm - i drove another that made me think i really needed to buy the car out from under him



insane skidpad numbers don't necessarily equate to great canyon handling either - canyon roads usually suck, and have a lot of undulation, requiring a suspension that is more compliant than one that will give you the best skidpad numbers



this is why a car that could easily be beaten on paper can win out in a real world scenario like a canyon - that is why our cars do so well



so, as for the 912, i am not suprised it does so well - as you said, the balance is a lot better - driven properly, and set up right, those cars are tough to beat in the canyons - you have to keep them revved up, but they zip very well when you do - the brakes are a bit light, and power is not all that great, but it all comes together with the skilled driver



on the 968, there is a lot that can be done - it all comes down to time and money - i'll have to take you out in mine and let you see what is possible on a street car - heck, now i'm even having suspension parts made to make it handle better

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[rhudeboye]

If you have access to a MO30 coupe, I would love to hear the results of a run vs the stopwatch and your thoughts on control differences.

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[flash]

nuts - there was one here saturday - that does give me an idea though

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[TonyBray]

Ok, so that begs the question: Why do we not have drives like this for our group? It's alright when the cars are very similar like the 356s and 912s. I have setup runs in the past with all models of Porsches. To me it's more fun when you get a good mix to see how yours stacks up with the rest of the family. It humbles some and impresses others. Most Porsche owners are only familiar with their fav model and have never seen a 914-6 or a 968 out doing what the good Doctor created it to do.



I would be willing to put something together if there is enough interest. I am a member in several p-clubs that cover almost all the models. Not a flat out race mind you but a "spirited" run through the mountains with some sort of lunch/get-together at the end? Anyone interested?



Maybe I can give away that 924 Turbo as a door prize! LOL!



--Tony

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[flash]

do it

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='TonyBray' post='32760' date='Mar 19 2007, 08:54 AM']I would be willing to put something together if there is enough interest. I am a member in several p-clubs that cover almost all the models. Not a flat out race mind you but a "spirited" run through the mountains with some sort of lunch/get-together at the end? Anyone interested?

--Tony[/quote]



Which coast are we talking here? If its east count me in.

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[Mark]

No it would be that other coast. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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