[TSBeckman]

So is the Club Sport more firm than than the standard car with the M030 option or vice versa? Is a CS with M030 the ultimate or total overkill?



http://www.eurosportcar.com/index.php?pa...el_id=5257

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[flash]

according to the production data i have, most of the UK cars in the 94/95 run were sports. not sure how they managed the lowered ride height without the M030 struts, but it does appear that they maintained that as a standard feature.



as for the rest, the sport may or may not have come with any of the other goodies, depending on how you ordered it. basically it was a model in between the standard car and the club sport. as packaged, it was 30kg heavier than the club sport, but still 20kg lighter than the base car. realize too though that the standard car as normally delivered was actually quite a bit heavier than the base version, and generally weighed another 50kg more, making the difference between the base and the sport or the club sport quite a bit more (70kg and 100kg respectively). this is why the club sport was 2 tenths of a second quicker 0-60 than the standard car the magazines tested.

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[Porsche968CS]

The Sport being the most popular option in the UK at that time does make sense. The car was a lot cheaper than the Coupe without being much less luxurious. You should take into account the RoW models in general were a lot less equipped than the North American ones. Things like A/C, CC and Sunroof for example where not part of the standard car for most countries. Additional luxury of the UK Coupe over the Sport; airbags, power seats, 6 speakers instead of 4, automatic heating control (no A/C!), temperature gauge and better looking interior trim (seats and door panels). The Sport on the other hand came with the lower suspension,17" wheels, sport steering wheel and rear spoiler in body color as standard. Which model would you choose in this case?



As said in my previous post, the lowered ride height is the result of shorter springs.



The story about the ability to add whatever option you liked is only partly true. There was a possibility to add some luxury items from a subset or the original car's options. I didn't apply to seating (no leather and/or power adjustments/heating) and interior colors (only black was available) for example. Features like CC, Tiptronic, 10 speakers audio (standard 944 door panels!) etc. were also not available on these models.

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[flash]

perhaps the dealers over there are less willing to change the car, but over here, you could order it however you wanted, and if it was one on the lot, you could get pretty much anything you wanted added to it.



i'd like to find the part number for the lowering springs.

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[TSBeckman]

So did the M030 cars come with the Sport lowering springs, different lowering springs, or was the ride lowered by some other means?



This is all very interesting. I would not have been a candidate for a car without Air Conditioning. That's a deal breaker since I live in a place that gets very hot and humid. I would have gone for the firmer suspension and 17" wheels though.



It seems as though it's not very hard to turn a M030 car into a de facto 968 Sport. I'm not interested in losing my rear seats or stripping out sound deadening material to get into CS territory, but the rest seems like it's pretty much already there.

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[flash]

i think you missed the part about the other items and the effect on weight. there is quite a list, and they all add up



the base car is listed at 3086lbs. in reality it's about 50lbs heavier. the club sport is really about 2970 in M030 trim. the sport is really about 3030 in its base trim. the M030 components add about 30lbs to the either base model, which brings the typically appointed M030 US car to about 3160.



if you're looking for what emblems to put on the car that depict what you have, then "M030" makes the most sense. to be a sport, at the bare minimum, you would have to ditch the AC, CC, and power seats. to me, that makes the car less interesting and less desirable. they only made he sport because the UK market didn't want to spend the money on the standard car. it's sort of like the "straight 6" mustang of 968s. it's not the weekend racer the club sport is, and it's not the luxurious GT the standard car is. it's really the most undesirable compromise between the two.

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[TSBeckman]

It's not really about the badge anymore. I'm going with either 968 or nothing.



The way you've explained it makes more sense. It was all contrived as a way to get people to buy the car ... by making it less overpriced compared to it's Japanese competitors. Seems to me that if Porsche had elected to call the car "Base" or "Stripper", it would have been more descriptive than "Sport".



The CS might be a somewhat different story, but even 2900 lbs is no real lightweight. Every bit counts, of course, but you can make any car lighter by removing seats and all power accessories. I like to think a Sport version of a car gets you something extra that makes sporting (track) driving better. Seats, wheels, springs, and a steering wheel all serve that purpose.

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[flash]

lol - stripper might have worked very nicely. i think they chose "sport" for the same reason a lot of manufacturers choose catchy little add-on tags. heck, sometimes they even call a car a sportscar, when it's really a GT, just to sell it. it's all perception.



as for the CS, they did what they could, but they didn't want to make more power, as that would have messed with the 911. the car already out-handled it. lightening it up, exacerbated that. adding the other goodies did too. if they had added power, they never would have sold another 911, and that is not something porsche is willing to risk. even today they won't bump up the cayman or the boxster for the same reason.

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[Porsche968CS]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1353853941' post='135223']

i'd like to find the part number for the lowering springs.

[/quote]



No problem, the part number is 944 343 531 09, you can identify them by their blue dots.

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[Porsche968CS]

[quote name='TSBeckman' timestamp='1353856678' post='135226']

So did the M030 cars come with the Sport lowering springs, different lowering springs, or was the ride lowered by some other means?



This is all very interesting. I would not have been a candidate for a car without Air Conditioning. That's a deal breaker since I live in a place that gets very hot and humid. I would have gone for the firmer suspension and 17" wheels though.

[/quote]



M030 struts are adjustable (in both height and stiffness) so there was no need for different springs.



Air conditioning was available as option on both CS and Sport so that shouldn’t have put you off ;-)

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[flash]

it's interesting that you have a different spring number than we do, though it is likely just a year to year thing, as it is only the suffix. i thought the M030 springs were a smaller diameter, but i guess not. cool.

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[Porsche968CS]

Yes, M030 springs are also different (see above screenshot). I meant to say there's no difference in the M030 springs used on the Coupe, CS and Sport.

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[flash]

lol - i think we are going around in circles with terms.



from the workshop manual:

the M030 car used a progressive rate spring (though final rate was 160#) with 20mm lower ride height, but was 329mm long. the outside diameter ranged from 110mm to 124mm



the club sport standard spring, which i now assume is the same as the sport, was a 160# fixed rate spring with 11.6mm wire, 106mm outside diameter, and 324mm long.



the standard car used a fixed rate 160# spring with 11.6mm dia wire, 106mm outside diameter, and which was 348mm long in hardtop version, and 356mm long in cab version



i see no way for the M030 springs to fit on standard perches, hence my conclusion about the other spring being the sport spring

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[Porsche968CS]

Yes that's correct, the CS standard spring is the spring used on the Sport with the exception of the single car that had the M030 package factory fitted. It will not become more complicated than this;

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[flash]

looks right. it would be nice to be able to source the sport springs for those who want to lower the car, but not have to go to the extent of changing struts. i'd love to be able to put a pair on the white car. i put a pair of hardtop springs on it, which dropped the front a bit, but not enough.

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[TSBeckman]

Okay, so the CS and Sport are sprung the same. All variants with M030 are sprung the same. We know the M030 is much stiffer than the standard car. So the question now is about that one CS with M030. I'm sure it wasn't a good value to get M030 on a CS because you get the 17" wheels and lower ride height either way. So how does the one M030 CS compare to all of the other non-M030 CS cars? Does it ride even firmer? And what is the difference in ride quality between a M030 car and a CS?

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[flash]

the M030 would have adjustable struts, the regular club sport would not. the M030 would have progressive springs. the regular club sport would not. the M030 would have adjustable rear shocks. the regular club sport would not. the M030 would have helper springs on the rear. the regular club sport would not.



basically the regular club sport would ride exactly the same as the standard car, but be a bit lower, which would tend to make it feel more planted.



it would also feel a bit livelier, due to the weight loss

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[Fox944]

H&R makes a progressive spring that fits the oem struts and lowers the front end 1.25 " rear can be lowered .75" from the factory.

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[Grandpa#3]

I can't help it, I'm still reeling from Sticker Shock. I'm glad everyone in Europe can afford to spend $600.00 for 5 letters to put on their car.



Cheers,

Larry

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[bombfactory]

To revert back to weight loss for a minute - It seems every Porsche in the US has power seats that weigh a boat-anchor ton. Were full manual 993 seats ever available? I rarely if ever adjust my seat and would love to lose that weight.

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